Ultima Dry Glove System question

[Zef]

Honestly I feel the dexterity with my 720s is great.
I can grab a boltsnap and feel exactly what is going on with it, no need to guess that I've maybe opened it while trying to clip it to something, it's great.
If I'm down at 10m or deeper the pressure will make sure there is absolute zero slack in the gloves, which makes the above even easier.
The only thing I'm not a massive fan of is the rings as they can feel a little bit in the way if I'm reaching for my valves sometimes, but it's more an issue of practice makes perfect rather than actually being in the way.

I have dived with the gloves squeezed down around my hands as you describe. I have not found the squeeze to be uncomfortable in the least and it helps with general dexterity. I supposed if I had to do anything for any length of time with my fingers that the squeeze may become cumbersome and fatiguing but the occasional unclipping/clipping of bolt snaps or fiddling with my DSMB and reel are not enough for this to be a problem.

However, I do notice, on the dives that I forget to insert the silicone tubes under my wrist seals, that my hands become colder sooner when I dive with the gloves squeezed down. In water 15c or warmer this is a non-issue, but the water temps here are still around 10c. With the tubes in place I can dive for relatively any length of time without the cold bothering my hands but without the gloves, as my dive approaches the 45 to 60 minute mark my hands become increasingly uncomfortable. The obvious answer to this is to dive with the tubes in place, or as @Deep South Divers will say: "cut the wrist seals back". I am too cheap and scared to cut my perfectly good si-tehc wrist seals back so until they both tear and I get the courage up to cut them back to the rings I will keep using the tubes.

Tonight I am going to experiment with the little red tubes from aerosol cans like wd40...I find it a bit cumbersome at times to insert the spaghetti like silicone tubes past my seals. The red tubes seam to have the same resistance as the silicone tubes when blowing or sucking air through them. Will post again to indicate how it works out.

-Z

 

[-JD-]

From over on another thread: sitech oval vs round quick cuff / quickneck vs neoprene neck sealMy

4th element have a glove system being released this summer that is just like the Ultima system except that it maintains the oval shape of the wrist cuff.

Ben

Interesting! Thanks for posting.
Fourth Element announce Ellipse Dry Glove System
manufactured by SiTech

"Designed by fourth element and manufactured by Si-Tech, the Ellipse system is designed to work with existing systems and can be used to replace the QCS Oval system on any drysuit."
"RRP £ 99.95"
"Available Spring 2019"

This could be much more cost effective than the Waterproof Ultima and keep the benefits of the oval form. Insider info? Thoughts?

 

[Degenerate]

I have dived with the gloves squeezed down around my hands as you describe. I have not found the squeeze to be uncomfortable in the least and it helps with general dexterity. I supposed if I had to do anything for any length of time with my fingers that the squeeze may become cumbersome and fatiguing but the occasional unclipping/clipping of bolt snaps or fiddling with my DSMB and reel are not enough for this to be a problem.

However, I do notice, on the dives that I forget to insert the silicone tubes under my wrist seals, that my hands become colder sooner when I dive with the gloves squeezed down. In water 15c or warmer this is a non-issue, but the water temps here are still around 10c. With the tubes in place I can dive for relatively any length of time without the cold bothering my hands but without the gloves, as my dive approaches the 45 to 60 minute mark my hands become increasingly uncomfortable. The obvious answer to this is to dive with the tubes in place, or as @Deep South Divers will say: "cut the wrist seals back". I am too cheap and scared to cut my perfectly good si-tehc wrist seals back so until they both tear and I get the courage up to cut them back to the rings I will keep using the tubes.

Tonight I am going to experiment with the little red tubes from aerosol cans like wd40...I find it a bit cumbersome at times to insert the spaghetti like silicone tubes past my seals. The red tubes seam to have the same resistance as the silicone tubes when blowing or sucking air through them. Will post again to indicate how it works out.

-Z

I'll agree that the squeeze does improve dexterity, but probably only up to a point.
I don't think I'd enjoy it as much in the 30-40m range.
I got a pair of extra seals with my suit and honestly replacement ones are cheap as chips as I'm in the same country as sitech and they're a relatively short drive away from me, would not shed a tear if I were to cut them but the courage needed to risk a potentially massive flood if I dislodge a glove makes me chicken out.
WD40 tubes sound interesting, but unless the cans I've seen in the past 10 years at work are different from the ones you get those tubes are very stiff and would definitely bother me during a dive.

 

[taimen]

This could be much more cost effective than the Waterproof Ultima and keep the benefits of the oval form. Insider info? Thoughts?

This could be what Antares should have been. Interesting that SiTech OEMs this but doesn't have something like this under their own name.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

The "locking" tabs on the older SiTech system rarely locked for more than a few seconds. I was so happy to learn that the Diving Concepts rings fit them, and later the larger Ultima rings. I'm very happy with my Ultima rings, but if I didn't have them, I would certainly give the new Fourth Element rings a shot.

 

[Zef]

Ok....back from this evening's dive and I can tell the good folks of SB that those red tubes that come with some aerosol cans work with regards to equalizing the dry gloves...

...but they absolutely suck from a comfort standpoint. The stiffness of the tubes makes them very uncomfortable against one's skin and after a 75 minute dive they were really uncomfortable as I flexed my wrists to to pry apart my Ultima rings from my suit.

Good experiment, less than stellar experience. Back to using the silicone spaghetti tubes.

-Z

 

[Deep South Divers]

From over on another thread: sitech oval vs round quick cuff / quickneck vs neoprene neck sealMy


View attachment 523871
View attachment 523872
"Designed by fourth element and manufactured by Si-Tech, the Ellipse system is designed to work with existing systems and can be used to replace the QCS Oval system on any drysuit."
"RRP £ 99.95"
"Available Spring 2019"

This could be much more cost effective than the Waterproof Ultima and keep the benefits of the oval form. Insider info? Thoughts?

I was on the Live Webinar when FourthE announced these glove rings at DRIS. They definitely looked interesting. I wouldn't mind it if they sent me a set to test and review.

My initial concerns would be the basic design - they're oval. That means that they only go on and seal in one practical direction, which is wholly contingent on the initial suit-side ring install. At the dive site, certainly you'll have to be very careful to align them properly before snapping them closed. Failure to do so will certainly stress the o-ring and create a leak point.

...But that's an initial impression based on logic and theory. The practical application may find that these work very well and aren't finicky at all.

Still, I'd have to be convinced that the initial set direction of the suit-side oval ring is a good thing over the round ring of the Waterproof Ultimas.

I'm hopeful. I'd love to get my hands on a set of these for testing.

 

[Zef]

I was on the Live Webinar when FourthE announced these glove rings at DRIS. They definitely looked interesting. I wouldn't mind it if they sent me a set to test and review.

My initial concerns would be the basic design - they're oval. That means that they only go on and seal in one practical direction, which is wholly contingent on the initial suit-side ring install. At the dive site, certainly you'll have to be very careful to align them properly before snapping them closed. Failure to do so will certainly stress the o-ring and create a leak point.

...But that's an initial impression based on logic and theory. The practical application may find that these work very well and aren't finicky at all.

Still, I'd have to be convinced that the initial set direction of the suit-side oval ring is a good thing over the round ring of the Waterproof Ultimas.

I'm hopeful. I'd love to get my hands on a set of these for testing.

The orientation of the oval is not set by the suit side ring (PU ring) that is relatively round...the orientation of the oval is set by the hard plastic oval ring that sandwiches the seal between itself and the suit side ring. The orientation of the oval can therefore be changed for comfort/convenience if desired.

-Z

 

[Deep South Divers]

The obvious answer to this is to dive with the tubes in place, or as @Deep South Divers will say: "cut the wrist seals back". I am too cheap and scared to cut my perfectly good si-tehc wrist seals back so until they both tear and I get the courage up to cut them back to the rings I will keep using the tubes.

..the courage needed to risk a potentially massive flood if I dislodge a glove makes me chicken out.

I certainly had the same fear before cutting the seals back... And used the same logic.

...But it was easy for me to make the leap; if I have a massive glove flood, I will certainly ALSO get a massive suit flood. Wrist seals don't seal even in the slightest bit on my wrists, and diving a drysuit without drygloves is a very wet experience for me:


In fact, prior to going with drygloves (and using wrist seals only with wetsuit gloves or barehanded), I was typically soaked up to the shoulder within ten minutes.

If your wrists look like mine (with or without the beer), there's simply no point in having a "backup" plan that doesn't work.

 

[Deep South Divers]

The orientation of the oval is not set by the suit side ring (PU ring) that is relatively round...the orientation of the oval is set by the hard plastic oval ring that sandwiches the seal between itself and the suit side ring. The orientation of the oval can therefore be changed for comfort/convenience if desired.

-Z

Yeah, just like the Ultimas and the OEM SiTech oval seals.

While it's not really "permanent," it certainly is something that'll take a little fiddling and honing - which is yet another drysuit thing that needs to be tweaked.

Perhaps it's an issue - perhaps it's not. I'd love to get my hands on a set and see.