Ultima Dry Glove System question

[laikabear]

Here's the 720 with no liner (size 8). Sorry, I cannot for the life of me remember how to embed photos. It always comes up as a broken link. I remember from Flickr I had to choose BB code, and then delete part of the link, but I can't remember what part to leave and what part to delete to get it to work. Grrr. If anyone wants to enlighten me, that would be nice.
Here's the liner glove I wear.
Here's the 720 with the liner glove.
And here's the Ansell G17K with liner. It's a size 7.5. Ansell is weird, they only seemed to have sizes with a 0.5 (7.5, 8.5, etc). Or maybe it's just where I ordered them from.

I like the fit and feel of the 720 with the liner glove. I think it's too loose without a liner. I was in a heated outdoor pool, so I have no idea which one was warmer, although of course the 720 looks like it would be warmer. I don't think that the 720 was leaking, because my hands seemed dry when I got out. But, I did get damp on this dive, and I'm not sure why. It might have been from my dump valve, which sometimes leaks if it gets sand in it. It was dry the last time I dived in the pool on Sunday, though.

I'm going to reserve final judgement on the 720s till I do an ocean dive. I need to see if the glove will be dry at deeper depths.

As far as dexterity, I'd say it's at least equivalent to the G17K gloves. Maybe even a bit better.

I realize you all are saying how durable the 720s are compared to the latex / neoprene type gloves. But, I've had really good luck with those. I guess I don't really touch much underwater, though. Using boltsnaps or climbing ladders is really the only time I touch anything. I'm not scraping barnacles off things or using chainsaws on my dives. I do sometimes get scallops at the oil rigs. FOR SURE, I would wear an older pair of wet gloves for that, and not dry gloves. That would tear a G17K in about 2 seconds.

My favorite color for dive gear is of course black (on dive days we wear black). But my favorite color for other stuff is cobalt blue. So these are pretty okay as far as color goes. I'm glad they aren't orange.

Hey @MaxBottomtime came through with an embedding tutorial. Yay!

 

[MaxBottomtime]

On your Flickr page with the photo, click on the download arrow at the lower right of the screen. Click "view all sizes" and when the photo comes up, move your cursor over the photo and right-click. Select "copy image" and then in your post on Scubaboard right-click and select "paste".

You have to set your Flickr page to allow downloads.

 

[laikabear]

 

[laikabear]

On your Flickr page with the photo, click on the download arrow at the lower right of the screen. Click "view all sizes" and when the photo comes up, move your cursor over the photo and right-click. Select "copy image" and then in your post on Scubaboard right-click and select "paste".

You have to set your Flickr page to allow downloads.

OMG thank you! I never did it that way but it works! Above is me at the radio tower. You posted about it recently. I've only been there once. Pretty neat!

PS I guess that's the largest size. Maybe next time I'll go smaller.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

Scubaboard resizes the images to 800 wide no matter which size you choose.
I found that way a few months ago. Before that, I was using the codes and eliminating the useless parts. It was such a hassle.

 

[Deep South Divers]

Here's the 720 with no liner (size 8).

20190207_172232

Very nice! Looks maybe a tick on the large side... Which will be nice if you dive with an underglove - which you seem to do.

Here's the liner glove I wear.

20190207_172319

Looks to be a relatively thick Merino wool underglove. I'm sure it's very warm... And probably necessary in a latex glove like you're used to... But it'll certainly reduce dexterity and tactile feel as compared to no glove at all or a glove like the Fourth Element Xerotherm "glove liner" or the Burton Powerstretch glove liners... Both of which are compressed synthetic fleece.

...Which may not be warm enough in a latex glove like the Ansell G17Ks.

...Which is why you'll really like the SHOWA 720s - nitrile is naturally much warmer than latex. They can be worn with no underglove at all - or if you prefer, a thinner, more agile underglove.

The net result is... More dexterity and tactile feel - and probably warmer, too.

The fact that they're much more durable (better abrasion, cut, tear and puncture resistance) and last longer (latex both UV degrades and ozone degrades while nitrile does not) makes them a better choice, too... But you won't know that for a year or two, when you're still using the same gloves.

Here's the 720 with the liner glove.

20190207_172335

Still looks to be a relatively roomy fit. Have you tried the next size down? Or do you like them that way?

And here's the Ansell G17K with liner. It's a size 7.5. Ansell is weird, they only seemed to have sizes with a 0.5 (7.5, 8.5, etc). Or maybe it's just where I ordered them from.

View attachment 504073

It's not an Ansell-specific thing... It's a glove-specific thing. Most of Ansell's stuff is only available in full sizes. Weird that this glove would be fit that way.

I like the fit and feel of the 720 with the liner glove. I think it's too loose without a liner. I was in a heated outdoor pool, so I have no idea which one was warmer, although of course the 720 looks like it would be warmer.

...Yeah, for most people, the amount of warmth that the dryglove offers as compared to how bulky it is is the whole point of a dryglove... So the fact that you are diving an environment where you can't tell the difference is sorta not giving you enough information. Can you do a local dive? What's the water temperature? It'd be interesting to see the practical differences between latex and nitrile.

...I did get damp on this dive, and I'm not sure why. It might have been from my dump valve, which sometimes leaks if it gets sand in it. It was dry the last time I dived in the pool on Sunday, though.

Yeah, that's a whole other topic. I went through about fifteen different iterations of drysuit exhaust valves -including many telephone conversations and new designs with SiTech engineers - before I found a combination that REALLY worked well, reduced it's profile height, and was not just dry - but able to take a beating in a muddy environment and STAY dry.

You and I have talked about it before - I like to use the top half of a SiTech Trigon pee valve. I find it super low profile and very, very dry. It's also super easy to maintain, rinses out very easily, and just screws into the hole that's already in your drysuit. Besides the purchase of the valve, there's no cost or downtime associated with the modification. It's really easy to do and pays dividends.

Alternatively, I'd be thrilled to show you how to remove what you already have (takes 5 seconds and requires no tools) and rebuild it... Which will make it very dry for a few dozen dives. The rebuild process is very easy and takes maybe 20 minutes... But if you haven't done it before, know that there's a lot about it that is NOT intuitive. PM me and I'll show you how. Don't try to do it without an explanation or you'll end up with a broken valve like we all have.

As far as dexterity, I'd say it's at least equivalent to the G17K gloves. Maybe even a bit better.

That's pretty awesome - and frankly, a little surprising. If latex has an upside, it's stretch and flexibility. Is the 720 just a better fit? I find SHOWA gloves in general just fit better than Ansell.

I realize you all are saying how durable the 720s are compared to the latex / neoprene type gloves. But, I've had really good luck with those. I guess I don't really touch much underwater, though. Using boltsnaps or climbing ladders is really the only time I touch anything. I'm not scraping barnacles off things or using chainsaws on my dives. I do sometimes get scallops at the oil rigs. FOR SURE, I would wear an older pair of wet gloves for that, and not dry gloves. That would tear a G17K in about 2 seconds.

Don't resort to wearing wet gloves! Wet gloves are awful after you've done the dryglove thing.

I have a guy working for me that wears wet gloves OVER his latex drygloves. Consequently, he's always battling fit and has repeatedly holed the wrist area where wetgloves do not cover, just beside the rings. He's also found that wetsuit gloves lack much cut and abrasion protection at all, and thus he repeatedly holes fingertips too. It's just not an ideal solution.

Trust the 720s. Yes, they're that durable.

For what it's worth... Cut and abrasion protective gloves are made of nitrile... Exactly like the 720s. With them, you won't need any additional protection - which is great, because doing that kind of stuff underwater really requires warmth, dexterity, and tactile feel.

You said in a previous post that you really liked your latex seals. I assume that you meant as compared to silicone seals. Any particular reason why? Latex used to be the material of choice for seals - because the alternative was blown neoprene (wetsuit material).

...But today's most advanced seals are silicone, which simply lasts longer because it is not UV or ozone sensitive. It's also stretchier and many people say it's much more comfortable. Unlike latex, it's hypoallergenic, too... So it's pretty much a win on every front. The only issue with silicone is that it can NOT be reliably glued to a suit, so it requires rings like the SiTech QCS oval, the SANTI SmartRing, or the SiTech Quick Neck system.

Latex is still available - but unless you're looking to forego a ring system, why would you prefer latex over silicone?

I don't ever see latex seals going away... There's some people that simply refuse to use neck and wrist rings... Which means that the seal has to be glued on... Which means it's going to be either latex seals or blown neoprene (wetsuit type) seals.

 

[laikabear]

Scubaboard resizes the images to 800 wide no matter which size you choose.
I found that way a few months ago. Before that, I was using the codes and eliminating the useless parts. It was such a hassle.

On my end, the pics I embedded above look like 3 different sizes. Do they all display the same size to you guys? The one from the radio tower is biggest, the glove pics are 2 different smaller sizes.

...Which is why you'll really like the SHOWA 720s - nitrile is naturally much warmer than latex. They can be worn with no underglove at all - or if you prefer, a thinner, more agile underglove.

I kind of feel like you're crazy if you wear those with no underglove. Maybe I'll try it on a shore dive one day. MAYBE. I do have a set of size 7's, but I am not sure I'll be able to mount them. It was already really hard to get the cuff of the 8 over the ring. The cuff of the 7's appears a few mm smaller.

Alternatively, I'd be thrilled to show you how to remove what you already have (takes 5 seconds and requires no tools) and rebuild it... Which will make it very dry for a few dozen dives. The rebuild process is very easy and takes maybe 20 minutes... But if you haven't done it before, know that there's a lot about it that is NOT intuitive. PM me and I'll show you how. Don't try to do it without an explanation or you'll end up with a broken valve like we all have.

Yes please!!! I was thinking of doing this but I haven't tried before, I didn't find a good vid on how to disassemble, and I was worried I'd break the valve. Mine is a Si tech low profile dump.

Regarding the pee valve thing. I have a Halcyon balanced pee valve, and although it should not, it leaks if it's not closed when I am not hooked up. It acts like an unbalanced valve I guess? Has since Day 1. I asked Halcyon about it, and they sent me a new umbrella valve and said that's not normal. I opened it up and replaced it (the original umbrella looked fine) and it still leaks if open and not hooked up. I gave up and just dive it closed if I'm not hooked up, so it's not an issue. But I guess I would be suspicious that the valve would leak in the dump position, too.

You said in a previous post that you really liked your latex seals. I assume that you meant as compared to silicone seals. Any particular reason why? Latex used to be the material of choice for seals - because the alternative was blown neoprene (wetsuit material).

My buddy has silicone seals and he tears them ALL THE TIME. He must have gone through at least 3 neck seals, maybe 4, in the past year. My latex (glued in) neck seal has been going strong for a while. Don't want to jinx anything. I would maybe move to a ring system for the neck seal just in case it does tear, but for narrow shoulders it can be stiff and interfere with valve drill. I already have enough issues with the valve drill, so not really considering that. A different buddy has figured out how to re-glue in her own latex neck seal, so I think I will run crying to her when I tear mine. I've never tried silicone seals. And luckily I don't get that hangman's ring around my neck like others seem to.

The latex seals for my wrists have been very durable, even the thin ones. Since I don't have a latex allergy, I'm happy with them. Silicone are more expensive and I think more prone to leak with thick wrist tendons, not a big concern now that I usually use dry gloves, but still.

I do agree with your (previous) comments about the plastic zipper. I have a plastic YKK and I love it.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

On my end, the pics I embedded above look like 3 different sizes. Do they all display the same size to you guys? The one from the radio tower is biggest, the glove pics are 2 different smaller sizes.

You may have selected the smaller sizes before you clicked "copy". I always select the 1080 size for posting on Diver.net and Scubaboard automatically resizes them. If you select a smaller size than 800, It will show up as the smaller size here. The photo with the black glove is only 320 wide.

 

[laikabear]

Well, I'm pretty sure that glove was leaking tonight at the pool. I'm still going to give it a whirl in the ocean, but I have a feeling that method of applying the gloves may not work because of the lining.

 

[Zef]

Are their any alternatives to the silicone or rubber cosmetic/protective ring? while packing my gear for a dive tomorrow, I noticed mine have developed slits in them...not sure how as I typically do not touch anything when I am in the water. Would like to source replacements/alternatives for the eventuality that they need replaced.

-Z