Two lake huron dives for inspiration!!!! And maybe a wreck diving book? Or great beginner scuba book?

[halocline]

OK so as I re-read this, it seems like if I am working with an instructor for my first times at a local quarry it's not as much risk- true? I do see what you are saying though- just jumping in with a totally different kind of diving and fresh water instead of salt and very cold water instead of bath-water warm- the risk goes way up for me. Having an instructor there covers a lot of bases- things like "dude you don't want those gloves your fingers will be frozen solid in minutes" instead of just finding that out on my own when I am 40 or 50' underwater. Then boom- oh hey, my buoyancy and trim are all messed up and my fingers are frozen and I am starting to panic...not good.

It’s not about risk, it’s about developing confidence and good solid habits in a progressive manner. You can try what you’re suggesting, but I wouldn’t expect it to be a positive experience given the minimal time you will have spent in the water, all of which will have been without a wetsuit and in much easier, more forgiven environment. But if the water temp where you will dive locally is in the 60s (this time of year, around here in upstate NY it’s more like 40s) and you can rent/borrow a well fitting 7mil wetsuit, and your expectations are low in terms of your ability to transfer the skills you have recently been taught to this much more difficult environment, then sure.

I’m not trying to be discouraging. There’s no doubt that you or anyone else can learn to dive really well in cold water. It’s just not ideal to go from 3-4 days of OW class in 80F clear water immediately to cold, dark water. More experience developing good skills in an easier environment is better as a first step.

 

[HamTrainChickenLaser]

It’s not about risk, it’s about developing confidence and good solid habits in a progressive manner. You can try what you’re suggesting, but I wouldn’t expect it to be a positive experience given the minimal time you will have spent in the water, all of which will have been without a wetsuit and in much easier, more forgiven environment. But if the water temp where you will dive locally is in the 60s (this time of year, around here in upstate NY it’s more like 40s) and you can rent/borrow a well fitting 7mil wetsuit, and your expectations are low in terms of your ability to transfer the skills you have recently been taught to this much more difficult environment, then sure.

I’m not trying to be discouraging. There’s no doubt that you or anyone else can learn to dive really well in cold water. It’s just not ideal to go from 3-4 days of OW class in 80F clear water immediately to cold, dark water. More experience developing good skills in an easier environment is better as a first step.

I don't feel discouraged- I appreciate your perspective! That's why I'm here- to get opinions from people who have the benefit of experience. I think Gilboa is darn cold this time of year- probably not so far from what you have in upstate NY. Not sure if this is a factor, but it's 140 feet deep or so. There is a shallow side though. White Star is not as cold it seems I've heard. I found this on reddit:

Max depth is 130ish. The shallow side where you will likely be doing your class is anywhere from 15 to 60 feet. With most stuff at about 30-40. Water temp should be in the 50s(10C) above the thermocline, going down to 39(4C) at 130. Gilboa is probably one of the best places in the Midwest to learn. The water is very clear. and there is no current on the surface to worry about.

Found online that the actual max depth is 137'.

Here is another issue as I figure out my path forward. It's expensive enough even buying used gear to get a full setup. I don't exactly feel ready to pay for two, and that is what I am looking at to do both warm and cold-water diving. If I am patient I can find a good price on a backplate and wing with a stainless plate and 40-50 lbs of lift, but then I need an aluminum plate and maybe 30 lbs of lift for warm water. I'm willing to spend what it takes- I am not afraid of greatness! My wife can get irritable though about "too much scuba gear expense" like that is even a real thing. Maybe if I just tell her she "needs to calm down"? Will that work?

 

[tmassey]

I think you’re confusing Gilboa and white star. Maximum depth at white star barely gets below 60 feet. There’s one specific spot you have to go in order to hit that 60 feet (inside the crusher). It’s actually a problem for teaching advanced classes there, because you have to go below 60 feet for the deep portion!

Water temperature is usually in the 60s. If you only stay on the platforms during the summer, it’s possible to stay above the thermocline and keep it closer to 70.

I wasn’t going to write this, but @halocline keeps pushing it, so I’m going to push back a little bit.

There’s absolutely no reason you cannot go diving in the quarry successfully and safely if you took your training in warm water. These quarries are not ice diving. And if you keep your depth above 60 feet, I don’t think you’re going to get water outside of even the 50s. This is not water cold enough to actually present a danger.

Now, yes: thick wetsuits are thick. But they don’t work any differently. I’m not worried about your regulator freezing up in 50° water. The diving experience will be quite different: it will be cold, it will be dark, and there will be an awful lot less colors to see. The visibility will probably be noticeably worse as well.

I think it would be smart to make sure your first experience in the quarry is with someone who is an experienced Quarry diver. You mentioned hiring an instructor for a day, and I think that’s perfectly fine; but I don’t think it’s essential that the person you go diving with is an instructor. But frankly, I think that anyone who is only days out of their open water class should be diving with an experienced buddy keeping an eye on them, regardless of the water temperature.

I understand and agree with the whole “don’t dive in conditions you’ve never dove in before without qualified assistance”. But the idea that you must limit yourself to additional warm water diving before you go into cold? Why? People get their open water certification every single weekend at those quarries, and they have zero experience – warm or cold — before. Why would your warm water experience put you at a disadvantage to those people? And if they can go from zero to cold water immediately, why can’t you?

I think your plan sounds excellent. I wouldn’t care if you literally had zero experience beyond your open water training dives, all done in absolutely pristine perfect conditions. There is zero reason why your very next dive could not be in a local Ohio quarry. Keep the water temperature at 50° or above. Keep the maximum depth at 60 feet or above. Make sure you have a buddy who has a good deal of experience in diving those conditions. And go have fun!

 

[HamTrainChickenLaser]

I think you’re confusing Gilboa and white star. Maximum depth at white star barely gets below 60 feet. There’s one specific spot you have to go in order to hit that 60 feet (inside the crusher). It’s actually a problem for teaching advanced classes there, because you have to go below 60 feet for the deep portion!

Water temperature is usually in the 60s. If you only stay on the platforms during the summer, it’s possible to stay above the thermocline and keep it closer to 70.

I wasn’t going to write this, but @halocline keeps pushing it, so I’m going to push back a little bit.

There’s absolutely no reason you cannot go diving in the quarry successfully and safely if you took your training in warm water. These quarries are not ice diving. And if you keep your depth above 60 feet, I don’t think you’re going to get water outside of even the 50s. This is not water cold enough to actually present a danger.

Now, yes: thick wetsuits are thick. But they don’t work any differently. I’m not worried about your regulator freezing up in 50° water. The diving experience will be quite different: it will be cold, it will be dark, and there will be an awful lot less colors to see. The visibility will probably be noticeably worse as well.

I think it would be smart to make sure your first experience in the quarry is with someone who is an experienced Quarry diver. You mentioned hiring an instructor for a day, and I think that’s perfectly fine; but I don’t think it’s essential that the person you go diving with is an instructor. But frankly, I think that anyone who is only days out of their open water class should be diving with an experienced buddy keeping an eye on them, regardless of the water temperature.

I understand and agree with the whole “don’t dive in conditions you’ve never dove in before without qualified assistance”. But the idea that you must limit yourself to additional warm water diving before you go into cold? Why? People get their open water certification every single weekend at those quarries, and they have zero experience – warm or cold — before. Why would your warm water experience put you at a disadvantage to those people? And if they can go from zero to cold water immediately, why can’t you?

I think your plan sounds excellent. I wouldn’t care if you literally had zero experience beyond your open water training dives, all done in absolutely pristine perfect conditions. There is zero reason why your very next dive could not be in a local Ohio quarry. Keep the water temperature at 50° or above. Keep the maximum depth at 60 feet or above. Make sure you have a buddy who has a good deal of experience in diving those conditions. And go have fun!

All noted!! Thank you!!

What part of my post seems like I am confusing the two quarries? My understanding is that Gilboa is quite deep (137') and as you get further down into the abyss it gets very cold. White Star is shallow relatively- 80 feet or less- and folks seem to say that the water isn't as cold as Gilboa. Now maybe if I am at say- 40-60' feet deep in either of those two places- it will be close to the same water temps. Not sure about that. Or maybe the cold, cold water (an instructor that i know was just there last week for training his student and it was 39 degrees at 120') at depth in Gilboa does make the 40'-60' deep water colder. I don't understand thermoclines very well but I know when water is 39 degrees that is COLD. LOL!!!!!

I've heard that above 50 degrees water temperature a 7mm wetsuit is possible, and below that it's definitely dry suit time.

 

[HamTrainChickenLaser]

And speaking of an embarrassment of riches:

 

[HamTrainChickenLaser]

Looks like more info on both quarries right here on the beloved scubaboard:

Thread 'Gilboa and White Star Quarrys'

Jan 17, 2025

What thickness wetsuit for summer and early fall diving? These things are expensive and am worried a 7mm semi dry may be too warm in some months. I also want to get a wetsuit that can accommodate most Ohio quarry diving and then maybe consider getting a thinner one. What do you guys recommend? I am considering a SP Novascotia 7.5mm semi dry. Is that too much?

I dont like cold and I run a little warm naturally. For example I dove Aruba in March in a 3mm shortie. I probably could have wore a 3mm full. It was ever so slightly chilly at 40ft but still manageable. Hot as hell on the boat...

• Ez E
• Replies: 32
• Forum: Exposure Suits

• 

 

[Ontwreckdiver]

I don't feel discouraged- I appreciate your perspective! That's why I'm here- to get opinions from people who have the benefit of experience. I think Gilboa is darn cold this time of year- probably not so far from what you have in upstate NY. Not sure if this is a factor, but it's 140 feet deep or so. There is a shallow side though. White Star is not as cold it seems I've heard. I found this on reddit:

Max depth is 130ish. The shallow side where you will likely be doing your class is anywhere from 15 to 60 feet. With most stuff at about 30-40. Water temp should be in the 50s(10C) above the thermocline, going down to 39(4C) at 130. Gilboa is probably one of the best places in the Midwest to learn. The water is very clear. and there is no current on the surface to worry about.

Found online that the actual max depth is 137'.

Here is another issue as I figure out my path forward. It's expensive enough even buying used gear to get a full setup. I don't exactly feel ready to pay for two, and that is what I am looking at to do both warm and cold-water diving. If I am patient I can find a good price on a backplate and wing with a stainless plate and 40-50 lbs of lift, but then I need an aluminum plate and maybe 30 lbs of lift for warm water. I'm willing to spend what it takes- I am not afraid of greatness! My wife can get irritable though about "too much scuba gear expense" like that is even a real thing. Maybe if I just tell her she "needs to calm down"? Will that work?

Don't get hung up on the deep side/shallow side at Gilboa. You are not allowed to dive the deep side without a deep diver cert or higher, you must have 2 independent cold water regs and tanks, you shall have a drysuit and a drysuit cert. The shallow side is only goes to 60 ft and has all the fun stuff. Go and enjoy, you are in a confined water environment. The only thing to see on the deep side is a transport trailer and it's deep, dark and cold.

A 40-50 lb wing is to big for single tank cold water diving, that's enough lift for a set of doubles.You will only need a 30 lb wing. I only need a 30 lb wing with my 4mm compressed drysuit & 108 LP steel tanks. I have a 26 lb wing for my down south diving.

This a site map of Gilboa. https://www.divebuddy.com/members/photos/divesite_724_793.jpg

 

[HamTrainChickenLaser]

Don't get hung up on the deep side/shallow side at Gilboa. You are not allowed to dive the deep side without a deep diver cert or higher, you must have 2 independent cold water regs and tanks, you shall have a drysuit and a drysuit cert. The shallow side is only goes to 60 ft and has all the fun stuff. Go and enjoy, you are in a confined water environment. The only thing to see on the deep side is a transport trailer and it's deep, dark and cold.

A 40-50 lb wing is to big for single tank cold water diving, that's enough lift for a set of doubles.You will only need a 30 lb wing. I only need a 30 lb wing with my 4mm compressed drysuit & 108 LP steel tanks. I have a 26 lb wing for my down south diving.

This a site map of Gilboa. https://www.divebuddy.com/members/photos/divesite_724_793.jpg

OK sounds great and thank you for the map!!!

I picked up a used wetsuit today. Well, you know- "semi-dry" but that means wetsuit I've been told. The guy said he used it twice before going to a dry suit:

It looks like it's 8mm all over except the hood which is 7mm??? Will a 30 lb wing still float this monster?

 

[HamTrainChickenLaser]

Oh wait that's backward. The more wetsuit I have, the less wing lift I need.

 

[HamTrainChickenLaser]

Is "too much wing" bad? I mean, it seems like if I need a 30 lb wing but I see a used 45 lb wing and backplate setup that looks well-maintained and is a quality brand like Halcyon or OMS or Dive Rite- I should grab it, no? Would I be messing up?