vkalia:Personal attacks? Nah, there were no personal attacks intended whatsoever (I used up all my aggression on rec.scuba when I was in my 20s). Sorry if it came across that way - I tend to have a somewhat cynical/sarcastic natural writing style, no offense intended. Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt
And my point is that IMO, you cannot make blanket assertions like that. Mostly, positive reinforcement does make it more enjoyable to learn, but in some instances, not conveying what happens if they *dont* follow the rules is more powerful (and important for the diver to know).
Hypothetically, let's say if you perform behavior A, you get a benefit of 5/100. On the other hand, if you dont perform behavior A, you get a negative benefit (or damage) of -70/100. If you stress *only* the positive reinforcement, you dont convey the entire picture. Maybe someone feels he will get a benefit of 20/100 by not doing behavior A ... what then? Unless he knows about the negative aspect, there is nothing preventing him from doing so.
Sometimes, the biggest reason "WHY" is "it prevents you from significantly increasing your chances of getting hurt". This tends to glossed over significantly with modern-day training. This leads to divers who are not fully aware of the risks of not following the proper procedures - and lets face it: there are *lots* of people who, given a chance, dive without properly checking to see if their buddy is nearby, who dont always pay attention to briefings, who go off on their own, etc.
Take diving with a buddy. Yes, you can stress that it makes diving safer, more fun and more enjoyable (that's answer D on the exams, innit?). That's nice - until some guy thinks "I'll have more fun by myself." I did that - went off solo on my 8th dive overall (I was a classic example of someone who *needed* to be reined in). OTOH, tell the same guy all the above, and add the fact that virtually every serious diver incident has involved buddy separation somewhere in the whole thing, and all they have to do to prevent that is stay with a buddy -- *now* we are getting somewhere. Now the diver knows why and why not, as well. That's an *informed* diver. I like informed divers.
As trainers, it is our responsibility to give student divers a *balanced picture* - and that includes talking about the risks, what can increase the chances of bad things happening and how to prevent them.
Lastly, what is effective for one person may not be effective for another. I dare say we get a very different profile of diver than you - and that may also affect our opinions.
Ummm... ok. And it is with a smile, not soft tone. I dont think I do soft tones...
Well, we can indeed agree to disagree. I know where you are coming from, and for the most part, I agree with it. I just think there are a few instances where you need to stress what happens if you dont as well as what happens if you do.
And if I am ever in your neck of the woods, I'll pick up the tab for a beer or three, even.
Happy diving,
Vandit
PS: I suggest if we want to continue this discussion, we start a new thread in the I2I forum, rather than hijacking this post further.
Actually I think we agree on a lot more than either of us is admitting. By way of a quick response. I think you might need to reread both of my posts on this tangent. I never said NO NEGATIVE reinforcement, nor did I imply an instructor shouldn't spell out consequences for doing the wrong thing. I merely stated the value of positive reinforcement goes further in my experience than negative.
As for adaptibility of one's teaching to the student, you can't call yourself an instructor of any worth without such skills. Also I doubt very seriously beyond a bit of culture that our students are different at all.
I've been around the industry and met so many really negative professional divers, crotchety old farts that spell doom at every opportunity. They think people find this stuff so fascinating and that it makes them more interesting to be the source of it. Here they are with the opportunity to share their wisdom and create a new addict by bending the ear of a diver soaking up their every word of experience filled with enthusiasm, boiling over with interest and excitement... and the first thing the professional spews from their mouth is 50 ways to kick the bucket underwater. It sounds like an oral form of Michael Ange's - Diver Down - Scuba Accidents, they start telling stories of divers who asphyxiate or suffocate, drown, get eaten, stung, crushed, the bends, trapped, confused, paralyzed ... then they add "So will that be cash or charge?"
With the negative impact movies like Jaws and Open Water have had on our sport, just the fact that you have a group of students who would even understand that hollywood reference AND still had the courage to show up for class, means it's time to move on. I was only recommending a more positive approach, not blow sunshine and gloss over reality - there is a HUGE difference. Instructors carry the weightiest of responsibilities - having direct impact on the longevity of our sport at every possible level. Positive reinforcement will go a LOT further.
