Two fatalities in Monterey

[Peter_C]

I have had two computers with alarms (turn pressure, low pressure, low NDL time, depth, etc.). However, I have NEVER heard the alarms in cold water. My neoprene hoods always trumped my computer alarms.

Even thru my 12mm hood I could hear my alarms and when diving with others have heard their alarms. Now if I get water deep into my ear, I can not hear much of anything. Huh?

When diving in the tropics with a DM leading a group, I hate the alarms going off in every which direction for unnecessary reasons. That is why early on I changed the settings on my AI computer for most alarms. I sure don't need an alarm telling me I am breathing hard either as I already know that.

Still I am thinking a newer diver might benefit from having a low air warning and ascent alarms.

 

[riftvalley84]

I'm not sure I agree with your positive observation that buddy diving means "die-ing together." If 2 divers died because they stayed together as a buddy pair, was it really the right thing to do? At least when "one didn't surface" or "one became separated from the group" there is a survivor.

Perhaps I've misunderstood your post?

Cruiser - I guess I wasn't clear. I didn't mean that they should have stayed together so that they could both die together. I meant that they INITIALLY did the right thing by staying as a buddy pair. I believe that one of them had a problem and then something went tragically wrong when the other one tried to help. Unfortunately in this case, one fatality made two - this is pure speculation of course but it seems plausible. My main point was that often when a scuba diver dies no-one is near enough to him to be considered an attentive buddy.

 

[openmindOW]

I believe that this dive was well supervised and the boat was well manned.

Thank you for your insight. I appreciate your point of view. what can you tell us about he dive op and/or the crew level on the boat?

It is my speculation that one lad was excited and went low or out of gas, his best friend tried to save him and they both died.

That's a fair specuation, and one which I am, on a preliminary basis, willing to share with you.

It would not be the first time that a dual "buddy breathing" drowning occurred.

When you say buddy breathing, do you also have alternate air source use in mind?

Does anyone know if NAUI teaches buddy breathing?

Does anyone know if the young men took the same SCUBA training class?

I know the tech who examined the equipment.

Were the young men wearing computers?

 

[ItsBruce]

Maybe computers with alarms are an answer to the issue of running out of gas. Most modern air integrated computers, whether consol or wrist mounted, have or can have alarms that sound at set air pressures. For someone distracted by the underwater inhabitants the alarms would most likely snap them out of their trance and alert them to check their computer. Although everyone should track their air consumption it is not always the case. For many the answer could well be alarms. This is starting to make me rethink what gear is ideal for new divers. Maybe rental departments should start supplying students with AI units?

If computers with alarms are the answer to the issue of running out of gas, then perhaps the particular divers should not be diving at all.

As far as alarms, on March 5, 2000, a Southwest Airlines flight 1455, upon landing, overran the runway, crashed through a metal blast barrier at the end of the runway, then an airport perimeter fence, and came to rest in the traffic lanes of a main thoroughfare. Before the pilots landed, the cockpit was filled with alarms warning that they were too high, too fast and too long to land, yet for some reason, these were very experienced pilots managed to ignore the alarms and try to land anyway.

Dive computers with alarms is not the answer. I don't know that there is an answer, but I don't think computers with alarms is it.

 

[iztok]

Certified? They are 16 years old. If they were at a school dance nearly every action they take would be monitored by observers. Throw them in the Pacific Ocean with very little experience? No problem. At some point common sence should prevail.

Only to keep up with "morality".

 

[Peter_C]

If computers with alarms are the answer to the issue of running out of gas, then perhaps the particular divers should not be diving at all.

As far as alarms, on March 5, 2000, a Southwest Airlines flight 1455, upon landing, overran the runway, crashed through a metal blast barrier at the end of the runway, then an airport perimeter fence, and came to rest in the traffic lanes of a main thoroughfare. Before the pilots landed, the cockpit was filled with alarms warning that they were too high, too fast and too long to land, yet for some reason, these were very experienced pilots managed to ignore the alarms and try to land anyway.

Dive computers with alarms is not the answer. I don't know that there is an answer, but I don't think computers with alarms is it.

Just because alarms have failed, doesn't mean that a majority of the time they don't function as they are supposed to and save the day!

I can think of many things in life that offer alarms for protection. If they didn't work there wouldn't be alarms.

 

[iztok]

Must be an east coast-west coast thing.

Here on the west coast we aren't much into "supervision" of certified divers. You go out on a boat, the captain takes you to the dive site, gives you a site briefing ... then the crew opens the gate, you step off the boat, and they typically don't see you again until you're back on the surface for a pick-up. It doesn't matter your age ... if you have a certification, you're expected to be able to plan and execute your own dive. That INCLUDES knowing when to say "not today".

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Nah, it is the "we want nanny state" people thingie, not east/west coast thing.

 

[DevonDiver]

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[Chuck Tribolet]

Actually, because of the altitude at Lake Tahoe, I found that my weighting stayed basically the same between there and the ocean.

Altititude doesn't affect weighting.

 

[fisheater]

Altititude doesn't affect weighting.

According to PADI, it affects wetsuit weighting. The lower pressure allows the bubbles in the neoprene to expand and displace more water. (At least until they are crushed by sufficient depth.)

My altitude instructor, at Tahoe, explained that its affect there basically cancelled out the fresh water buoyancy difference.


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