Two fatalities in Monterey

[cool_hardware52]

I have read nearly every word I can find on the internet with regards to these boys.

I do not know the boy's OW certification date. Are Sophomores allowed in this Oceanography class?

What dates were their "dives" at Lake Tahoe? How many post cert scuba dives did they make before going to Monterey?

Did everyone on the "class trip" make the "evening" dive?

I have not pretended to know any of the above.

My criticism has been directed at your repeated implication that the boys parents had no or imperfect knowledge of their actual *SCUBA DIVING* in lake Tahoe.

You have twice suggested that the boys might have been doing something other than scuba diving, contrary to the statement attributed to at least one of the boys parents.

Until proven otherwise I'm inclined to accept that the boys parents would have a fair idea of whether or not the boys had more scuba dives in lake Tahoe.

Tobin

 

[merxlin]

Halemano, there could have been martians with ray guns for all we know. And you know that. What is your point? Do you have anything constructive to add, or is your intention to just bring up every single possible scenario and wild speculation you can imagine? What purpose does it serve to assert (with your reference to a stabbing) that this was intentional and that these boys were doing anything but diving? Your implication (despite your thinly veiled disclaimer of not making an accusation) is unwarranted, unnecessary and out of line, IN MY PERSONAL OPINION.

 

[PAelectricity]

Aliens........















.

 

[mdb]

I believe that this dive was well supervised and the boat was well manned.

These young men were best friends. It is my speculation that one lad was excited and went low or out of gas, his best friend tried to save him and they both died. It would not be the first time that a dual "buddy breathing" drowning occurred.

I know the tech who examined the equipment. I have been diving at the same site many times.

This was a tragic accident and not the fault of the parents, the boat crew, or the gear.

There are lessons to be learned, for sure, gas monitoring, use of dive guides, etc. Perhaps, as we approach 40,000 views on this thread, we learn rather than blame.

 

[Ayisha]

Was the water temperature cold enough to cause their regs to freeze up and freeflow? If the regs froze, would this be detectable after the amount of time the equipment was in the water? I don't know the answer, just trying to imagine what could be the root cause.

It probably wasn't cold enough for the regs to freeze, but I believe regs can also freeflow from sand or debris in them or imprecise tuning. If the boys had air integrated computers, the profile could show how fast or slow the air was used up.

 

[Peter_C]

Maybe computers with alarms are an answer to the issue of running out of gas. Most modern air integrated computers, whether consol or wrist mounted, have or can have alarms that sound at set air pressures. For someone distracted by the underwater inhabitants the alarms would most likely snap them out of their trance and alert them to check their computer. Although everyone should track their air consumption it is not always the case. For many the answer could well be alarms. This is starting to make me rethink what gear is ideal for new divers. Maybe rental departments should start supplying students with AI units?

Analogy using a car: the temperature gauge is pegged in the red Zone yet the driver is oblivious, but fortunately the vehicle has audible alarms that sound to alert them BEFORE their engine blows up. Alarms work!

FWIW I dive in gauge mode non air integrated now, but I did start with an air integrated unit. I did appreciate the ascent alarm more than a few times, so I do have first hand experience with air integrated.

 

[fisheater]

Maybe computers with alarms are an answer to the issue of running out of gas. Most modern air integrated computers, whether consol or wrist mounted, have or can have alarms that sound at set air pressures. For someone distracted by the underwater inhabitants the alarms would most likely snap them out of their trance and alert them to check their computer. Although everyone should track their air consumption it is not always the case. For many the answer could well be alarms. This is starting to make me rethink what gear is ideal for new divers. Maybe rental departments should start supplying students with AI units?

Analogy using a car: the temperature gauge is pegged in the red Zone yet the driver is oblivious, but fortunately the vehicle has audible alarms that sound to alert them BEFORE their engine blows up. Alarms work!

FWIW I dive in gauge mode non air integrated now, but I did start with an air integrated unit. I did appreciate the ascent alarm more than a few times, so I do have first hand experience with air integrated.

I have had two computers with alarms (turn pressure, low pressure, low NDL time, depth, etc.). However, I have NEVER heard the alarms in cold water. My neoprene hoods always trumped my computer alarms.

 

[Ayisha]

From available information, these divers were certified in California (or the Nevada side) in Lake Tahoe. Tahoe is clear, but it's also cold. So the same amount of thermal protection and hence, weighting, is needed.

bold added

Lake Tahoe is fresh water while Monterey is salt water. All exposure protection being equal, one needs MORE weight in the salt water of Monterey.

For example, I need 16 lbs with my cold water exposure equipment in freshwater with an AL 63, while I need 24 lbs in the salt water in SoCal with the exact same gear. Using steel tanks in both locations also requires different weighting. For me, it's 4 lbs in fresh water, 10 lbs in salt water.

BTW, if someone rented steel tanks that they were unfamiliar with and used the amount of weight they need in fw or especially sw with an AL tank, the result could be surprising, to say the least.

 

[dmoore19]

It probably wasn't cold enough for the regs to freeze, but I believe regs can also freeflow from sand or debris in them or imprecise tuning. If the boys had air integrated computers, the profile could show how fast or slow the air was used up.

It would certainly help clear up some questions, if they had computers. I have not heard any information saying they did or didn't.

 

[fisheater]

bold added

Lake Tahoe is fresh water while Monterey is salt water. All exposure protection being equal, one needs MORE weight in the salt water of Monterey.

For example, I need 16 lbs with my cold water exposure equipment in freshwater with an AL 63, while I need 24 lbs in the salt water in SoCal with the exact same gear. Using steel tanks in both locations also requires different weighting. For me, it's 4 lbs in fresh water, 10 lbs in salt water.

BTW, if someone rented steel tanks that they were unfamiliar with and used the amount of weight they need in fw or especially sw with an AL tank, the result could be surprising, to say the least.

Actually, because of the altitude at Lake Tahoe, I found that my weighting stayed basically the same between there and the ocean. In any case, my point was to compare the exposure protection and weighting for cold water (fresh or salt) to that needed for warm water. There, the difference is huge.

As far as the steel tank goes, the difference would be about 6 pounds.