Two divers die at Wazee Lake, WI

[Thalassamania]

Omitted decompression procedures are well documented in the US Navy and NOAA Diving Manuals.

 

[TSandM]

Yes, Thal, but those are procedures for coping with missed decompression, once you are there. What are the guidelines for, "I've been at 250 feet for 20 minutes, how much deco can I blow off and come out okay?"

 

[Rick Murchison]

Yes, Thal, but those are procedures for coping with missed decompression, once you are there. What are the guidelines for, "I've been at 250 feet for 20 minutes, how much deco can I blow off and come out okay?"

That's an unknown, isn't it?
The only safe answer is "none" - after all, aren't we setting our deco at the shortest possible safe limit?
The better question is "How are we going to get an injured diver to the surface whose survival requires it?" What's the plan?
Can we do it without surface support?
Can we do it without support divers?
Do we have enough gas to do it?
Is there an "acceptable-risk" alternate deco procedure available to team members who must abandon their primary deco plan? That "acceptable-risk" may be blowing off "X" minutes or "X" stops, or it may be shifting from an RGBM or VPM to a ZHL or Navy or Royal Navy schedule. For example, if a US Navy schedule has a first stop at 40 feet, I can blow off all the deeper stops called for by V-planner and hand an injured diver off to a support diver at 40 ft. and commence the US Navy deco schedule for the dive. Note that this plan requires (1) I know the Navy schedule for the dive and (2) I have a support diver at 40 ft. and (3) I have enough gas to execute the (shallower but much longer) Navy schedule.
I can't claim to have adequately planned and equipped every deco dive I've ever done to handle bringing up an injured diver. But mishaps like this one have helped me to see the light and to realize deco isn't to be approached lightly. Indeed, in the early years we didn't even carry any extra gas, and we're just blind lucky we never had a mishap... these days I want someone topside, maybe even someone in the water at the first deco stop if it's a "big" dive, and I've taken to having long & detailed planning sessions with lots of "what if" situations explored in advance with decisions made on the surface before we ever have to make one under water.
Rick

 

[Dragon Eye]

The difficult part with this dive location is there is nothing around and it is 3 hours to the nearest Hyperbaric chamber. It appears that the paramedics took them to a different hospital first, then the two who survived at the time were transported to the chamber.

 

[Thadmn]

You sound educated so I don't want to discount your thoughts but what I'm asking for is some guide line on decom emergency ascent. You make it sound like it's cut and dry.... Your statements suggests that we follow the current rules even though we all know they are well buffered and if it's our child / parent / best friend....... welll......

Let me ask another way....in an emergency situation given the circumstances that a buddy diver suddenly stops responding.... at what rate of ascent is possible without a good chance of death for yourself *or* what reducing of saftey stop is needed to prevent death (not sickness).

Non decom Navy rules says 60 feet per minute. I would imagine there are decom rules for emergency situations. Every minute counts and I (and my diving buddies) want to tell people we did everything we could.

I don't mind getting sick to save a life and arming myself with the information and talking with my divemates on an appropreiate emergency ascent rate doesn't seem like a bad idea in any circumstance.

Of course that's different, if it's your child your emotions are going to take over. In contrast, if it's my dive buddy Al who has a history of heart problems, and who wouldn't grab my arm to pull my ass up out of three feet of water while thrashing about after tripping backwards on a rock without my regulator in my mouth? Sorry pal, you're on your own! ( I would send flowers though!)

 

[David_57]

If I am considering a technical dive where decompression stops are required I consider the risks and would not expect my buddies to risk there own life to save mine should something go wrong this should be discussed with the other divers before starting the dive, if I am not comfortable with this I don't do the dive I regard any deep dive requiring long decompression stops as a solo dive.

On another note when involved with this type of diving it would be a good idea to have a thorough yearly medical checkup including a stress test especially if you are in your 40's and up.

 

[razn1]

What's wrong with doing the dive with three people? We routinely run teams of three -- that means you've got 2x rock bottom, three brains working, and three eyes spotting interesting stuff.

I don't have a problem with diving in odd numbers (although I was taught to pair up on dives)for recreational diving. In my opinion if your going to the depths that these guys were at you should be paired up. Then you should only have to really worry about one other person in an emergency. Not that you can't assist others, but your air is really only meant for yourself and one other person in an out of air circumstance. What if two of the three ran out of air in an extreme case, then you your air has to be split three ways? That just seems like poor planning. That's my 2 cents on it.

 

[Cave Diver]

What if two of the three ran out of air in an extreme case, then you your air has to be split three ways? That just seems like poor planning. That's my 2 cents on it.

You're right. It's poor planning to dive with 2 buddies that can't manage gas at depth.

 

[TSandM]

Rich, that's a great post, and I'm with you. I boat tended for a pair of friends who were doing a 200 foot dive, and as I sat in the rain, I thought about what would happen if one or both of them surfaced in trouble, and I had to try to get them back in the boat.

But your post again illustrates that there is no set of rules for handling these issues, and there can't be. Each case must be evaluated at the time. But the more serious the dive, the more thought one should have given to what the resources needed in the event of trouble are, and the more things should be in place before you ever get in the water.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I don't have a problem with diving in odd numbers (although I was taught to pair up on dives)for recreational diving. In my opinion if your going to the depths that these guys were at you should be paired up. Then you should only have to really worry about one other person in an emergency. Not that you can't assist others, but your air is really only meant for yourself and one other person in an out of air circumstance. What if two of the three ran out of air in an extreme case, then you your air has to be split three ways? That just seems like poor planning. That's my 2 cents on it.

The point is that with proper planning and execution, diving with three is in no way (IMO) more dangerous or less efficient than a pair of divers. Recreational diving is mostly built around the foundation of buddying up in two's. Further training with certain agencies often includes at the very least a portion (if not the majority) on training and diving in TEAMS. These teams can be 2 or 3 or more (I believe). Again, this is built around proper dive planning and execution. If you fail to properly plan and execute a buddy dive, then people can still get hurt or dead.