Tulum - what training should I get?

[scubastingray]

You did realize when you wrote this that Grim Reaper and NACD warnings are placed at the end of the cavern zone to warn untrained divers that going beyond those signs is unsafe, didn't you? Does not the existence of those signs indicate an acceptance of non-cave trained divers in the cavern area?

Maybe I was misinformed (and I don't have much experience with a great number of dive sites), but I was told the sign isn't in the cavern sign necessarily. Sometimes they coincide with the end of the cavern zone, sometimes they don't. This makes sense to me, because I've seen the signs with ambient light before (clearly not the end of the cavern zone).

 

[TSandM]

I certainly don't espouse people diving the caverns by themselves and without training.

One thing most divers are pretty good at is following a guide. That's what they do in the cenotes. If they do that, and if the guide follows the rules, the likelihood of a mishap is probably no greater than for most open water dives. The safety record bears that out.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

I certainly don't espouse people diving the caverns by themselves and without training.

One thing most divers are pretty good at is following a guide. That's what they do in the cenotes. If they do that, and if the guide follows the rules, the likelihood of a mishap is probably no greater than for most open water dives. The safety record bears that out.

One thing every student I've ever worked with did well was "Monkey see Monkey do".
The likelihood of a mishap is reduced dramatically when they are trained to follow standards and lessons the were taught as opposed to emulating the people they see or read about.

---------- Post added July 18th, 2014 at 08:42 PM ----------

Stop interpreting standards to fit your perception of the danger.

 

[TSandM]

I'm not interpreting any standards. I'm saying that I have done these dives, I have observed these dives, and I believe the risk involved is acceptable IF all the rules are followed. The track record bears me out.

I do not think untrained divers should dive independently in caverns or caves. I will not take an untrained diver into a cave, not ever. I think the risk of swimming in a shallow cavern zone, following a guide, is pretty low -- and if you have already gotten some training in buoyancy control, non-silting propulsion, light signals, and situational awareness, lower still. There is little difference between the guided cenote tour and the first dive of a cavern class. We have no problem with an instructor taking three students into the cavern who have never been there before ,and most agencies permit it to be done in a single tank setup, too.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

I'm not interpreting any standards. I'm saying that I have done these dives, I have observed these dives, and I believe the risk involved is acceptable IF all the rules are followed.

Which part of avoiding overheads do you feel falls within standards of an OW diver with 8 dives?

---------- Post added July 18th, 2014 at 08:57 PM ----------

IF all the rules are followed.

Please indicate which rules in regards to overhead training are followed with an OW diver with 8 dives?

---------- Post added July 18th, 2014 at 09:01 PM ----------

I noticed you capitalized "IF" can you explain you reasoning?

---------- Post added July 18th, 2014 at 09:14 PM ----------

No SCUBA police here. Do what you want. Training is only a recommendation by those that train it and do it. Two Scuba Board Moderators have voiced their opinion that "some" overhead environments are safe. The will be back shortly to define "safe" because they are smarter than all the other agencies and have redefined the common vernacular. I for one can't wait for the list of "Safe Caves" and "overhead environments"

 

[karstdvr]

.

One thing most divers are pretty good at is following a guide. That's what they do in the cenotes. If they do that, and if the guide follows the rules, the likelihood of a mishap is probably no greater than for most open water dives. The safety record bears that out.

There is one very prolific and excellent cave instructor which has been teaching for over 20 years,and he does something to teach his students a lesson. When leading a class he will deviate around the lips at Devil's and will enter the step down room. This room has no line,and he will turn around and give the thumbs up. Most students have been blindly following him,and didn't run a reel,now the exit out is not evident. There are many lessons being offered here,that resonate with the student in the future,but the main point is people will follow guides blindly,get in a bad situation,and unable to self rescue.

 

[scubastingray]

Leading untrained divers into an overhead just seems like a disaster, and is the epitome of a follow me dive. Some would probably be okay if the guide had a medical complication, but it's not something they have prepared for and assuming all OW divers could make it out in such an event is absurd.

People do those dives because they are excited by it, which is fine, but they do so unsafely without the proper training and companies are happy to privatize and let you pay them for that "privilege."

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

There is one very prolific and excellent cave instructor which has been teaching for over 20 years,and he does something to teach his students a lesson. When leading a class he will deviate around the lips at Devil's and will enter the step down room. This room has no line,and he will turn around and give the thumbs up. Most students have been blindly following him,and didn't run a reel,now the exit out is not evident. There are many lessons being offered here,that resonate with the student in the future,but the main point is people will follow guides blindly,get in a bad situation,and unable to self rescue.

NSS-CDS #106 breaks 35 years of cave diving and he's a sneaky bastard too Steve really enjoys letting you think you are the ****

 

[Doc Harry]

I am going to offer a different perspective. Most people are saying that you should get more experience to protect yourself from any trouble from the cenotes.

I am going to suggest that you get more experience to protect the cenotes from YOU.

The cenotes are beautiful and fragile. Inexperienced divers and snorkelers can do a not of damage. When you are able to maneuver in relatively confined areas without having to use your hands, touch things, or kick up the silt on the bottom, then you can consider cenotes diving.

 

[Dirty-Dog]

I am going to offer a different perspective. Most people are saying that you should get more experience to protect yourself from any trouble from the cenotes.

I am going to suggest that you get more experience to protect the cenotes from YOU.

The cenotes are beautiful and fragile. Inexperienced divers and snorkelers can do a not of damage. When you are able to maneuver in relatively confined areas without having to use your hands, touch things, or kick up the silt on the bottom, then you can consider cenotes diving.

The areas used for these tours are not particularly fragile. They are absolutely NOT confined, and it's damn near impossible to kick up any silt.


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