TSDT Flower Gardens Trip update...+

[Cave Diver]

Nope. Ask away. I have a few more comments regarding your last post, but time prevents me from responding to it right now, so I'll do it after work today.

If you think of anything else in the meantime, post them and I'll try to answer all in one.

 

[MakoSince70]

Dee, Cave Diver and others, I have been following your posts concerning ponys. I would apreciate some opinions on the following. What do you think about a totally independent pony rig with it's own reg. But, the pony is just a 6 cu ft. I have been diving with such a rig off and on. It is not for use in an over head environment. I use it from 60-100 ft. If you do the math on air consumption, 6 cu ft is not much at 100 ft. My thoughts are to use the pony for finding a buddy at depth or emergency accent in case of equip failure. Depending on depth, there will not be enough gas for a safety stop. My thoughts are to remain with just 6 cu ft because the unit is so small that you don't notice it.
I could move up to a 13, but then we are talking more equip etc.

I like the small pony for an emergency. I don't use it as a back up in a OOA situation because I have never come close to an OOA. Barring an emergency such as entanglement I don't think I will ever loose track of my gas supply. Now lets not go down this road. My reason, a 6 cu ft pony has got to be better than none. And the vast majority of recreational divers don't use ponys.

My main safety thought on the 6 pony is to have it in the event of an O ring blow or total main reg failure. I just like the comfort of the redundacy and 6 cubes to get me to the surface or to my buddy who may be looking the other way when Murphy strikes.

I started using this rig because I would travel to destinations solo. That ended up in buddying with the other odd diver on the boat. To often the new buddy would disappear when I was setting up a picture. Once a new diver left me inside a wreck off the NC coast at 100ft. NOT in an overhead. Down three decks with the decks opened. He got spooked and exited from the top deck opening . Since we were just a few feet apart, a slap on the sholder and I would have followed him. As it turned out, I spent a couple of minutes looking in holes in the bulkhead thinking that he entered the main wreck and did not need to be left behind. Just in case of a reg failure, I had my 6 pony backup.

Any thoughts out there.

 

[Dee]

scubafanatic once bubbled...
I appreciate both of your insights into my 'issues', here's a few follow-up thoughts I had:

1) the thought of using a pair of LP72's won't work on the Sea Searcher, as they will issue me an AL 80 (I understand the Fling/Spree requires divers to bring their own tanks, so they don't care what size one uses....which is the opposite of the Sea Searcher, where one-size-fits all, like it or not.)

2) I will probably relax more and use less air with the comfort of a pony than if I don't use a pony and worry more about the air issue.

3) I knew the 'soft' manifold concept wouldn't be very 'PC'.....I'm just thinking out loud about doing that versus using a 'conventional' set up --totally independent pony+reg bolted to the side, with no 'communication' with the main tank. In defense of the concept, I would be using a brand-new short HP hose, so I think the chance of a 'blow out' is remote.

4) The 'soft' manifold would simplify my gear (I think) although I'm still looking at exactly how it could be set up. It appears I could access the pony's air without needing to attach any other hoses to the pony 1st-stage, just attach the short HP hose to connect the 2 1st-stages, and simply use the BC / primary 2nd stage/ octo/ SPG/ air-integrated computer run all off the primary 2nd stage as normal...which would reduce the number of loose hoses (and the resulting drag), since I wouldn't have to necessarily run an independent 2nd-stage/SPG off the pony 1st -stage (although I could if I wanted too).

(yes, I do agree there is a sound logic to operating the pony as a completely independent system......and I'm not saying that I won't end up doing just that.......one disadvantage to that would be I'd have to manually inflate my BC, as I can't connect 2 independent BC hoses to my BC)

(also, it might be nice to let my air-integrated computer 'see' all 110 cu. ft. of air available.......so that if in an emergency I have to dip into the pony air reserve, the computer will still accurately track my dive parameters, so I know where I stand as far as nitrogen-loading, safety stop duration, etc)

5) I don't plan any endurance/depth contests, so I have no intention of violating NDL/depth limits....but would like to have a 'fudge factor' built in. I'll be with 15 other divers, and will follow the groups' lead, but I want to guarantee that if anyone has an OOA emergency, I'll be the one donating, not receiving........just don't want to be the weakest-link.

6) Buddy paring worries me, and as diving with complete strangers appears inevitable, a pony would increase my survival chances, as I'm leary of depending on someone I've never met before being my sole back up plan.

7) I wasn't planning to rely on the pony gas to prolong my dives, my impression is that most divers won't even use ponies, so when my buddy calls the dive, I'm fine with that, I just don't want to be the spoil-sport.......just in case my air consumption is really sub-standard, which I won't know until I'm in the water and it's too late to change anything.

8) Sounds like it's a better idea to mount the pony to one side, and add/subtract 2# weight as needed...to reduce drag...and to avoid having that extra pony weight distributed that far out from my body, which I think will tend to pull me backwards in the water too much. I agree the drag will be greater than with my single LP120, but again, that's not an option on the Sea Searcher.

I've got a number of other areas to explore with both of you as well, since you've been so generous so far, as far as what to expect on a live aboard, what to bring, and specifics on dive experiences at the Flower Gardens aboard the Sea Searcher, so I hope you don't mind my asking.

Karl

1) I know that. The suggestion for '72 doubles was for the future as an alternative to the heavy LP120.

2) I agree.

3) I agree, the possibility is small. Just realize it does exist.

4) "(yes, I do agree there is a sound logic to operating the pony as a completely independent system......and I'm not saying that I won't end up doing just that.......one disadvantage to that would be I'd have to manually inflate my BC, as I can't connect 2 independent BC hoses to my BC)"

You lost me here. A pony has nothing to do with your BC inflator hose. You remove the inflator hose from your pony rig and plug the 1st stage.

6) Good for you. This is one of the reasons to carry a pony. Be the best buddy you can be but be prepared to depend on no one but yourself.

8) Maybe I'm dense but I've not noticed the drag on my pony. The extra weight, yes.

Karl, I'm trying to get across to you that an independently rigged pony bottle is one of the safest ways to go. You are not going to be the only one on the boat with higher air consumption. When you talk to the other divers to find a buddy, try to find one with a/c similar to yours. I know you don't want to be the one to call the dive because of your a/c but it's not the worst thing to happen, we've all done it.

 

[Dee]

I agree with your reasons for using a pony, I use one as well. I just think the 6 cf is a bit small, but if you're confident of it, that's your call.

I've used a 13cf for several years but have recently taken over Beast's 19cf. I want to make sure I have enough air to take my time and make the right decisions at a safe pace, not have to hurry up at depth before my air supply runs out. I'd definately feel that way with 6cf.

There is a weighting difference but with a 2# counter weight, it's well balanced and easy to adjust to.

 

[MakoSince70]

Dee, thanks for your comments on pony bottles. Bottom line, you are correct. At a minimum 13cf should be used to ensure a calm slow accent and safety stop. I really want the pony for our many Caribbean trips. However, following another post on tanks, it looks like it is getting more difficult to check tanks when flying. At least I stand a chance of a 6cf one being overlooked as compared to a 13cf. In 39 days (who is counting) we are off to St Maarten and Saba. I sure would like to carry some ponys with me.
Given the safety factor provided by a pony and 2nd reg, I don't understand why more divers don't use them.

 

[Dee]

MakoSince70 once bubbled...
However, following another post on tanks, it looks like it is getting more difficult to check tanks when flying. At least I stand a chance of a 6cf one being overlooked as compared to a 13cf.

Given the safety factor provided by a pony and 2nd reg, I don't understand why more divers don't use them.

I think you have the answer. It's just too much hassle to take a pony through airports and then have the hassle of having it filled at your destination. I've heard that more and more resorts where more advanced diving is available, are renting pony bottles.

One thing we do in Roatan (CCV) is we'll sling one of their 50cf short AL tanks. Just think of it as a fat pony!

 

[MakoSince70]

Dee, At CCV all Bridget dives with is a 50. I use an 80 and she still comes up with more air than me. I am not sure she could find room for another one on her tiny frame. With her air consumption rate we can probably keep heer in a 6cf and move me up to a 13cf,

That is a good idea for CCV. When we were there last summer there were many divers doing solos. However I was the only one using a pony with redundant reg. I really don't understand a diver going solo without this extra epuip. for safety.