TSandM's thread "value of DIR" got me thinking

[ScubaMilo]

I think taking a DIR class and not at least trying the gear would be a mistake.

If your mind is shut to the gear aspects what other areas of your diving might it also be shut to.
The idea that GUE trys to get across is we should be thinking divers.
If your mind is not open to new ideas are you really thinking?

I think taking a DIR class without the gear is like putting ice cubes in a good beer.
Sure the beer is cold but it ruins the whole contents of the glass.

In the same aspect taking a DIR class to learn the philosophy but not adopting the gear, ruins the whole conforming gear and gasses part of the philosophy.

Yes it would still make you a better diver but you would still not be Doing It Right.

Probably just another unwanted opinion,
Milo

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

As I understand it ;DIR is based largely on equipment and the mastery of diving skills. Please correct me if I am wrong .

That's a common misconception.

DIR is all about team-oriented diving, and everything else about it (including gear config) flows from that. You cannot really understand DIR unless and until you understand and appreciate what it truly means to be part of a unified team. IMO, this is something that is not taught very well in most modern SCUBA curricula, so it's sometimes difficult for people to get their head around the concept. As a couple of other folks have stated, it's definitely not something you can learn from an on-line forum or reading a book. It's very much an experiential kind of learning process.

My question is this, Are classes available that teach the DIR philosophy without the equipment requirements?

You can certainly take a class that will teach you the skills and rudiments of propulsion, trim and buoyancy, etc, and you don't need to be wearing DIR gear to learn how to hover or do a backwards kick (although I would argue that DIR gear makes it easier for most people to do those things). However, that won't be a DIR class (IMO anyway), since it can't really reinforce the concept of team diving. One critical component of "unified team" is the common gear config. It's kind of hard to make people into a "team" if they are not all wearing the same uniform.

Like several people have mentioned already, I think you will be missing out on a key aspect of the DIR experience if you take a class that does not require DIR gear. Having everyone on the same page with gear selection will make things a lot easier on the dives, as it allows you to develop more consistent reactions and procedures. That's really what it's all about anyway - looking out for your team members and doing what's best for your team as a whole.

 

[Agent 47]

I was going to post on this thread for the first time but after reading the nonsense from Headhunter I almost decided against it. Nice move, to the DIR board. Might as well be the Scientology board.

Great. Now we all need to go re-read the ToS and see if there is anything against bigotry and religious intolerance.

I'm guessing yes??? Mods?

Why is it that some people just aren't happy unless they're bashing someone?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Great. Now we all need to go re-read the ToS and see if there is anything against bigotry and religious intolerance.

I'm guessing yes??? Mods?

Why is it that some people just aren't happy unless they're bashing someone?

Well, first ya had the anti's bashing because it wasn't in the DIR forum ... then ya had the anti's bashing because it was.

Some people just aren't happy no matter what you do ... but who's problem is that, really ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Adobo]

Well, first ya had the anti's bashing because it wasn't in the DIR forum ... then ya had the anti's bashing because it was.

Some people just aren't happy no matter what you do ... but who's problem is that, really ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Come on Bob. Let's be fair. It's one set of people not happy when you do. Another set not happy when you don't. I think it's one of those "can't please everybody" situations.

 

[tnfireman]

That's a common misconception.

DIR is all about team-oriented diving, and everything else about it (including gear config) flows from that. You cannot really understand DIR unless and until you understand and appreciate what it truly means to be part of a unified team. IMO, this is something that is not taught very well in most modern SCUBA curricula, so it's sometimes difficult for people to get their head around the concept. As a couple of other folks have stated, it's definitely not something you can learn from an on-line forum or reading a book. It's very much an experiential kind of learning process.
Team is the very reason I do not (at this time)want to change gear. The PSD's in my area all have the same setup.

You can certainly take a class that will teach you the skills and rudiments of propulsion, trim and buoyancy, etc, and you don't need to be wearing DIR gear to learn how to hover or do a backwards kick (although I would argue that DIR gear makes it easier for most people to do those things). However, that won't be a DIR class (IMO anyway), since it can't really reinforce the concept of team diving. One critical component of "unified team" is the common gear config. It's kind of hard to make people into a "team" if they are not all wearing the same uniform.

Like several people have mentioned already, I think you will be missing out on a key aspect of the DIR experience if you take a class that does not require DIR gear. Having everyone on the same page with gear selection will make things a lot easier on the dives, as it allows you to develop more consistent reactions and procedures. That's really what it's all about anyway - looking out for your team members and doing what's best for your team as a whole.

After much reading I agree with you and the other posters,For now I will be following the PSD path.
I am thinking now that it would be a diservise to myself to take 1/2 the DIR route (training without the gear).
Just so yall will know I'll be watching The darkside does intrique me!!!
Thanks for all the info.
Ray

 

[Uncle Pug]

For now I will be following the PSD path.

Now to drop the bomb.

Of the three types of diving I mentioned: DIR technical, PSD and commercial... only one will make you a better recreational diver. Guess which one.

PSD equipment and methodology is exactly what is needed for... PSD.

However those same gear configurations and methodologies make for lousy recreational diving. Same goes for commercial diving... the cross over is bad at best.

When I took my first DIR class, the instructor mentioned that public safety divers and commercial divers were the hardest to rehabilitate.

(Of the five of us, two were public safety divers, one was a commercial diver and the other two had learned most of their bad habits from us.)

I didn't realize how true our instructor's words were until the first pool session.

 

[tnfireman]

OOHHHHH Great NOW ya tell me LOL LOL

 

[cmalinowski]

Future strokaphilic spewage from the aggressively indignant will be nuked.

tnfireman,
Do what works for you. I took fundies after reading and listiening to the pros/cons pointed out in various places. I can honestly say that it was, without a doubt, the best course I have taken on anything. Many people take the course. I would say 99% learn something from it (there are those people that do refuse to learn). I would further say that maybe 20% carry it through to actually going the DIR path. Many take what they want and disregard the rest--They may think they are DIR, but they are not. And that's OK. They are better, safer, more informed divers. That's never a bad thing. I dive with lots of non-DIR divers. Some have taken the class, some have not. Contrary to what the conventional diatribe out there suggests, we don't all think non-DIR divers are bad divers.

I wouldn't avoid the class for fear that it might cause you to reconsider your diving style or equipment setup. It is a wonderful learning opportunity for you to take what you want and disregard the rest if you so wish.

Just my thoughts.

Chris

 

[Hank49]

Now to drop the bomb.

the instructor mentioned that public safety divers and commercial divers were the hardest to rehabilitate.

That's interesting and I seen confirmation of that. I have dived with a friend and former commercial diver and he had 0 buddy skills, not to mention little conventionally accepted recreational diving skills. He would just go off on his own.....deeeep...(even with his inexperienced, young son) because I guess that's how he dived when going down to loosen some bolts or whatever on an oil rig. I won't allow my son to dive with him and his son anymore without me. I always thought that commercial divers were the "Formula One car drivers" of diving. I guess it's just a completely different focus on training procedures.