Trying to understand why someone would want a liberal computer

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Originally posted by dvleemin
Now the obvious answer is you want to go deeper, for longer. But wouldn't it make sense to have a conservative computer that goes into deco mode, and then follow its directions rather than a liberal computer that doesn't go into deco mode? For the little bit of extra time that that deco stops take, isn't it worth the added margin of safety?

Can someone explain this?

DArryl
The following is not presented as a didactic in staged decompression diving... this is presented to show you that your recreational computer is not up to the task of decompression diving and should never be intentionally taken into deco mode.

Darryl re-reading your initial post I realize that I gave too quick a response without enough information and explanation.

Your computer neither allows nor disallows you to do anything... it merely presents information and you decide how to use that information.

A conservative computer used unthinkingly is not safer than a liberal computer used with understanding.

Now as for the issue of deco stops. Liberal computers include them as well, even though all owners manuals I have seen to date include warnings and disclaimers. For instance the bold type warnings in the Savant manual seem to appear every other paragraph warning users not to go into decompression mode. The deco mode merely exist to accomodate the accidental violation (and IMO it is also a concession to marketing.)

One of the problems with deco stops as given by dive computers is that they start with shallow stops and then only add deeper stops as the violation becomes more egregious. A diver trained in deco diving knows that every dive is really a deco dive and always includes the minimum deco of 1@30 1@20 1@10... rather than the 3@15 that your conservative computers call for. As the dive gets further into the realm of staged decompression and real deco obligations begin to accrue, extra time is added to the shallow stops but deeper stops are added as well. These deeper stops are very important to keep bubbles from forming in the first place. Unfortunately for the poor (and irresponsible) recreational computer diver who takes his computer into serious violation these extra deep stops are not added automatically. And bubbles once formed at depth are not going to easily relinquish their nitrogen with extra time at shallow stops. In fact there is evidence that it is easier for gas to enter already formed bubbles than to exit in solution through the blood & lungs. So the bubbles once formed tend to grow.

Now the reason I took the time to give this little generalized background is to answer your question above:

<<<It does not make sense to have a conservative computer that goes into deco mode, and then follow its directions.>>>

It was not designed to nor can it give you good directions on how to deco out.

And to answer the last question:
Deco stops are not always benign... longer time spent in deco can be hazardous and the goal should always be to reduce the deco time required by careful planning and execution of the dive (including using appropriate deco gases.)

This is not the technical forum and this is not presented as a didactic in staged decompression diving... this is presented to show you that your recreational computer is not up to the task of decompression diving and should never be intentionally taken into deco mode.
 
That kind of helps explain the story in Diver Training a few months back. The woman was following a whale shark and accidently went too deep. As soon as she noticed what had happened she aborted the dive, did a controlled ascent and followed her computers advice for deco stops. Later, after following the computers guidelines for non-flying, she got bent during the airplane flight home.

BTW, do stories like this make an argument for a more "conservative" computer, or do they only restate that we don't know all about DCS? :confused:
 
Originally posted by landlocked
BTW, do stories like this make an argument for a more "conservative" computer, or do they only restate that we don't know all about DCS? :confused:
Neither in my opinion....
While we perhaps do not know everything about DCS there is enough known that technical divers who are properly trained and equipped can routinely do staged decompression dives without getting bent. A more conservative dive computer will not remedy stupidity or inattention.

I think the answer lies in reinforcing the idea that recreation depths and time limits are not to be fudged just because your dive computer has deco stops advertised as a feature. Realize that the manufacturers are not willing to sell you these things as deco computers because they know that that will get them sued when divers get bent... but they market them in such a way that it leaves the impression for the gullible that they have that capability.

If you want to get anywhere near decompression diving then you need technical training plain and simple. Otherwise adopt a very conservative mindset and stay well within the NDL. Do not let computers, liberal or conservative rot your brain and lull you into thinking that they can and will take care of you. They can't and they won't.
 
I wouldn't get behind the belief that computers make you more or less likely to get hit.Some"believe" you've sustained more or less nitrogen up-take but as stated earlier they aren't really the cutting edge they are hyped up to be .They are a "best guess" type solution .I use what I use to believe to be liberal OceanicDataPlusII,after seeing 17 min of deco on it and 7 on a buddies Aladin Pro Nitrox as he wore both as BT/DG in Ginnie last month .I use software derived tables for deco-diving.I 'll use the most liberal computer I can as I am under 10% body fat,don't smoke,drink or use drugs.I'm in good cardio shape.To me the lost time and deco obligation would be a penalty.At least one of the software programs I use gets me out much faster than any dive computer.I believe the largest contributing factor to be education followed by conditioning.
 

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