I'm trying to put together a tech setup and am not sure what to do given its new territory. I just bought a used APEKS WTX harness with the steel backplate, the surelock weight system, two knives that are made to be attached to each weight system, the single tank adapter, WTX4 buoyancy cell. I am roughly 6'1" and weigh about 220 and used to smoke so my SAC probably isn't too great. I'm looking to put a set of steel doubles on. I was thinking 100s but would you go a little bigger? Also LP steel or HP steel? I know if I go with HP steel I would need to go DIN and I'm trying to keep things cheap for now so I was hoping to use the yoke regulators I have. I am going to take SDI Solo soon (with my recreational setup) and then wanted to do TDI advanced nitrox/decompression not too long after that. In the long run I want to get into cavern/cave but that's a way off. Would you go with double 100s or a little larger? Is it stupid to go LP Steel since I can't later change to DIN? Given my size, the size of the tanks, etc. What size wing would you think would be best? Am I wrong in assuming the WTX4 is going to be too small? If I end up going cave do you think I will regret not getting HP Steel since they are smaller? Thanks for any advice. I'm sure there are plenty of things I'm not thinking about but the things I can think of seem small compared to these choices. If it matters... I always dive wet and really never have been cold.
Trying to put together a tech setup
- Thread starter Crass3000
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Out there, in the real world, where the water is, there are people who can help you with this. They are people called technical diving instructors. You'll have to talk to one eventually, in order to do the courses you want, so why not find someone you want to learn from, sit down with them, and discuss where you want technical diving to take you. That way - so long as you choose the right instructor - you'll also end up with the right set-up.
Or, you can ask a whole load of people you've never met, most of whom are probably just as dumb as I am, and hope they give you a sensible answer.
My only advice on your set-up as you've described it is... If you're planning technical and cave diving, you might as well give up on any hope of it being cheap right away, and just get used to the pain from the off. Money you save now is money you'll almost certainly have to spend twice later to get the thing you should have got in the first place. Trust me. My bank-account knows this.
Or, you can ask a whole load of people you've never met, most of whom are probably just as dumb as I am, and hope they give you a sensible answer.
My only advice on your set-up as you've described it is... If you're planning technical and cave diving, you might as well give up on any hope of it being cheap right away, and just get used to the pain from the off. Money you save now is money you'll almost certainly have to spend twice later to get the thing you should have got in the first place. Trust me. My bank-account knows this.
As GrimSleeper says, take advice from one if not several other tech instructors.
If you go for HP tanks you might find that a yolk first stage will not fit as there is no indentation on the back of the valve for the clamp to tighten on to, so you are going to have to change that first stage to a DIN in order to use it.
Three bits of advice from me
1. Change your first stage to a DIN, and you are probably going to have to buy one more regulator if you plan to use doubles and at least another for a stage.
2. Buy HP Steels.
3. Once you start tech you will be diving deeper and stay under longer so you will get cold and start looking at using a semi-dry suit or even a dry suit.
If you go for HP tanks you might find that a yolk first stage will not fit as there is no indentation on the back of the valve for the clamp to tighten on to, so you are going to have to change that first stage to a DIN in order to use it.
Three bits of advice from me
1. Change your first stage to a DIN, and you are probably going to have to buy one more regulator if you plan to use doubles and at least another for a stage.
2. Buy HP Steels.
3. Once you start tech you will be diving deeper and stay under longer so you will get cold and start looking at using a semi-dry suit or even a dry suit.
You might consider posting on the tech diver forum that you're looking for a good tech instructor in your hometown to get you started on the right path. Get a couple of well recommended names, talk to them in person if you can. Then pick the instructor you get on with the best.
This won't be a bargain basement adventure on either the equipment side or the instruction side. You can ease into it, but GrimSleeper is absolutely correct about the cost trajectory.
This won't be a bargain basement adventure on either the equipment side or the instruction side. You can ease into it, but GrimSleeper is absolutely correct about the cost trajectory.
I am also in agreement to seek advice from a technical diving instructor. The equipment used in technical diving can be very specific, according to the kind of technical diving you are doing or planning to do. As for your other questions,... I use the WTX harness w/ a SS backplate some for recreational diving, but not for technical. With the adjustable harness, there are too many "danglies" that can cause an entanglement hazard. Also, if you go to steel cylinders, unless they are tiny) you likely won't need much if any weight (pouches). As the tent to put you in a feet down trim. Most add'l weight used w/ doubles is usually in the form of a V- weight between the cylinders or such. Your tech instructor will need to help you sort out your trim. That said,.. a simple backplate, harness & wing will suffice for most people. Cylinder size will depend on what you plan to do. I started small (LP 85's) & worked my way up to behemoth LP108's. By consulting an instructor (likely the one you may be learning from), you may be able to save yourself some grief & $ in the long run. Searcaigh is correct in the regulators You will need to eventually have DIN regulators (& likely lots of them). I've probably gone overboard, but I currently have 16 regulators for different purposes. Although it does not have to be stupid, be aware that technical diving & it's equipment isn't cheap. Be willing to spend what is necessary to have safe, reliable equipment suited for the type of diving you want to do.
waterpirate
Contributor
You allready identified this is new territory for you, so...... You are about to make a very costly, first mistake, made by the majority of new punters, myself included. You need to identify where and how deep you will be diving, then go find yourself a instructor who is " doing the dives ". Let them mentor you on the gear purchases and set ups. This will prevent the first day of class, when you present your gear and the instructor gives it the hairy eyeball, makes a few snarky remarks, and gives you a list of things to go buy, and another list of things you have that need to go back on e-pay.
As for the money, I sold a restored dodge power wagon to fund my tech gear, and still came up short.
Eric
As for the money, I sold a restored dodge power wagon to fund my tech gear, and still came up short.
Eric
Concur, as a tech instructor my first discussion is equipment and how our diving profiles and skills influence your choices. It is unfortunate to see expensive purchases made before applying the thought process of why. There are many aspects of knowledge that go into choosing gear, get the info first then spend the money. Feel free to pm me if you have more questions, dive safe.
jay
jay
This is so far one of those rare ScubaBoard forums where everyone is in agreement. I would not buy a single thing more than you have now. My next step would be to make a very, very careful search for the instructor and agency you want to use for at least your initial training. Let that instructor assist you in your equipment choices. Otherwise, you may make some choices that you will later regret.
USFpsychDiver
Contributor
"Tech" isn't one thing. Even before finding an instructor you need to define what it is you want to do that requires a tech configuration: deep?, wreck?, cave? You just mentioned solo, but all you need for that in OW is a pony. While I have dove steels with yoke valves, I've never seen anyone with doubled steels using yoke valves, so you're going to need to bite the bullet on that one. I guess I did it 'wrong', because I did buy my gear before consulting with my (cave) instructor on each purchase, but it all worked out. I ended up with a DiveRite plate and harness, Hollis x55 cave wing, pair of Hollis DC1/212 regs, plus reels, lights, drysuit, etc. etc. etc. I got everything second hand off various boards (including here) and ebay, which helped, but it was still more expensive than than the rec setup. And I still don't have my own tanks, deco regs, scooter, strobe lights, and on and on and on.
If you're diving cave in North Florida, then LP tanks are fine (where 3600 psi on a 2400 psi rated tank is considered a light fill); otherwise go HP. HP100s are a great all-around tank, but again, size depends on what you want to do -- I find them a little small for the cave penetration and depth I like, but they aren't too heavy doubled and trim nicely on my frame (6'1", 180 lbs).
Have fun, and keep an eye on that credit card balance!
If you're diving cave in North Florida, then LP tanks are fine (where 3600 psi on a 2400 psi rated tank is considered a light fill); otherwise go HP. HP100s are a great all-around tank, but again, size depends on what you want to do -- I find them a little small for the cave penetration and depth I like, but they aren't too heavy doubled and trim nicely on my frame (6'1", 180 lbs).
Have fun, and keep an eye on that credit card balance!
Why would you think that using LP now and then swapping to HP means you could not use DIN? All of your tanks, LP or HP, for tech diving should be DIN. Don't play around with yoke at all unless it's for your singles vacation rig. Buy two DIN 1st stages and seconds to go with them. Once you start trying to monkey around with hoses between doubles and singles you just open yourself up for trouble.
If you came to me for training we'd take the surelocks and put em back in the car. Replace the harness with a single piece of webbing, sell the knives on ebay and get you a trilobite and pair of shears. Then go to the Dollar Store and buy a pack of serated steak knives. Cut the tips off and blunt the ends and make a pouch out of another piece of 2 inch webbing.
As for tanks I prefer LP steels as it is pretty much guaranteed I can get a good fill and likely a really good fill. Like cave or wreck fill. They also tend to be cheaper.
The first thing any tech instructor is going to do is look at your motivations for getting into it and maybe try to discourage you. Then we'll go over all the ways you can die doing this. Then we'll look at the gear you have and pick it apart. Each of us has ways we like to do things and some more than others. Ie if you don't want to reroute your hoses or get rid of some things we may tell you to find someone else. If someone showed up with a big console on their rig they are going to replace it with a simple spg and put the computer in a wrist mount. Not that they'll actually use it for more than a timing and depth tracking device. All the dives will be planned and executed according to tables.
And again, integrated weights? Nah. Either weight on the plate, a belt, or if using tanks like LP 95's you may not need any. And looking at those surelocks they could interfere with stage bottle use.
As for wing size for doubles? Something in the 35-45 for al80's or small steels like lp72's. Anything more and 50-60 should be fine. BUT it also depends on what expeosure suit you are wearing as well.
And like others have said, don't expect to do this on the cheap. Tried that early on. Waste of time and money. You can get good deals. But I'd be looking at somewhere in the area of oh say 2000 - 2500 to start with a set of doubles. And most likely if you get into this at all, one set will not be enough. You'll need two.
If you came to me for training we'd take the surelocks and put em back in the car. Replace the harness with a single piece of webbing, sell the knives on ebay and get you a trilobite and pair of shears. Then go to the Dollar Store and buy a pack of serated steak knives. Cut the tips off and blunt the ends and make a pouch out of another piece of 2 inch webbing.
As for tanks I prefer LP steels as it is pretty much guaranteed I can get a good fill and likely a really good fill. Like cave or wreck fill. They also tend to be cheaper.
The first thing any tech instructor is going to do is look at your motivations for getting into it and maybe try to discourage you. Then we'll go over all the ways you can die doing this. Then we'll look at the gear you have and pick it apart. Each of us has ways we like to do things and some more than others. Ie if you don't want to reroute your hoses or get rid of some things we may tell you to find someone else. If someone showed up with a big console on their rig they are going to replace it with a simple spg and put the computer in a wrist mount. Not that they'll actually use it for more than a timing and depth tracking device. All the dives will be planned and executed according to tables.
And again, integrated weights? Nah. Either weight on the plate, a belt, or if using tanks like LP 95's you may not need any. And looking at those surelocks they could interfere with stage bottle use.
As for wing size for doubles? Something in the 35-45 for al80's or small steels like lp72's. Anything more and 50-60 should be fine. BUT it also depends on what expeosure suit you are wearing as well.
And like others have said, don't expect to do this on the cheap. Tried that early on. Waste of time and money. You can get good deals. But I'd be looking at somewhere in the area of oh say 2000 - 2500 to start with a set of doubles. And most likely if you get into this at all, one set will not be enough. You'll need two.
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