Trying to be less of an air hog

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I do pool work and that has help tremendously. <hee> I'm already in shape.
Sorry dont believe you, need pics(several) to confirm statement.;)

I love all the advise. I remember reading this when I first dove and took to the water with the viger of a navy seal. I think the part where I read just dive your face off and get comfy with diving was the most solid for me. What I did to learn how to control my sac rate was try to breath in time with the guy I was diving with. All of them had better sac rates than me. I eventually felt my mind ease as I always felt I needed to breath either faster of more often. That was just nerves. As I got more comfortable, had perfect weight, developed proper trim with proper kicks for the dives I was on my sac rate really got low.
I love to follow the women and try and breath like them. Their little lungs kill me. I dont think I have come up with more air than a female diver more than twice. All the girls I seem to dive with have gills.
I think the cool thing about diving is, as you dive more you get better. So dive more.:D
 
It seams that one of my questions has yet to really be answered: Renting a tank for a day or so and just breathing through that to get used to breathing through a regulator, is it a viable way to help improve my SAC? I have seen that I breath harder when on a regulator than not.

The problem isn't breathing through a reg, but instead breathing underwater. You have received a lot of valuable insight here. Let me try to put it all together in one post for you.

TS&M gave you the answer when she told you the major issue is being comfortable underwater. For new divers, a huge degree of discomfort is simply being submerged. We are land mammals, and it takes quite a lot to get over our instinctive fear of drowning. Subconsciously you know you are in an alien environment far from the surface (different psychologically from swimming on the surface or slightly below it), and your body goes into stress mode. When this happens, your heart rate increases, your body tenses, and you breathe quicker. The result is a rapid depletion of air supplies.

To reiterate what TS&M has told you in the bit she quoted in her post, breath control is not about breathing through a reg, but more about relaxation. Breathing "deeply" means using the diaphragm to draw air in and push it out fully, not just pumping up the top half of the chest. The breathing impulse is a function of the amount of CO2 in the body, and by exhaling completely after each inhale you help to avoid creating dead spaces in your airways where CO2 build up is possible. Any part of your airway that isn't "flushed" contributes to CO2 build up, so do breathe "slowly and fully" as recommended by Scubagolf.

Other biggies in terms of "air-hoggism" are not swimming in trim and proper weighting. Think of the angle you hold your hand on the surface of the water when you want to splash somebody--about a 45° angle, right? The energy you put into the movement is transferred to the water itself so that it splashes up--and your hand slows down. If you use a flat hand, parallel to the surface of the water, you don't get the splashing effect because the energy you use doesn't transfer to the water itself and your hand just slides through. Now imagine that same positioning underwater. If you swim out of trim (usually with legs dangling down), in order for you to move forward you need to push a lot of water out of the way, and of course that takes a lot of energy. If you are horizontal in the water, you push a lot less water out of the way, meaning your energy is used mainly for your own propulsion.

Related to this is weighting, as Seaducer points out. If your legs dangle down, you will be finning yourself upwards at an angle rather than simply forwards. Divers who dive in this position usually think they need more weight because they are constantly rising in the water column, and then when they put more weight on the weight belt, their legs drop even further, meaning they become quite over-weighted. When this happens, these divers need to pump a bunch of air into the BC to get neutral, even at shallow depths, and they then end up with buoyancy issues. If you have the right amount of weight distributed so that it allows you to swim horizontally in the water, you work less to move yourself through the water more efficiently, and this results in improved air consumption.

Also as Bryan mentioned above with his barbie illustration, another important factor is fining technique. Bicycle kicks get you nowhere with a great deal of effort. The "barbie" image above with extended legs and pointed feet will produce an effective flutter kick (as long as you are horizontal). There are other kick techniques as well. I find that frog kicks are the most efficient for me. When I count kick cycles for 100 yard distances using both frogs and flutters, I kick about 1/3 fewer cycles with frogs. Imagine the savings on air consumption by not needing to use those long muscles of the thighs so much, as Lee noted!

The whole thing is like a tapestry with different aspects woven together: relaxation, breath control, weighting, trim, fining. This is why air consumption is one of the big frustrations of new divers--there are so many different facets of it to work on that it takes a while to get it all coordinated.

You CAN get there, though! Most of us have been in the same situation you are now in, and we have done it.
 
I agree. I missed that. The possibility does exist that it is not in good working order but this is unlikely...

Well, it should be considering that its still under 1 yr old etc.
 
The problem isn't breathing through a reg, but instead breathing underwater. You have received a lot of valuable insight here. Let me try to put it all together in one post for you.

TS&M gave you the answer when she told you the major issue is being comfortable underwater. For new divers, a huge degree of discomfort is simply being submerged. We are land mammals, and it takes quite a lot to get over our instinctive fear of drowning. Subconsciously you know you are in an alien environment far from the surface (different psychologically from swimming on the surface or slightly below it), and your body goes into stress mode. When this happens, your heart rate increases, your body tenses, and you breathe quicker. The result is a rapid depletion of air supplies.

To reiterate what TS&M has told you in the bit she quoted in her post, breath control is not about breathing through a reg, but more about relaxation. Breathing "deeply" means using the diaphragm to draw air in and push it out fully, not just pumping up the top half of the chest. The breathing impulse is a function of the amount of CO2 in the body, and by exhaling completely after each inhale you help to avoid creating dead spaces in your airways where CO2 build up is possible. Any part of your airway that isn't "flushed" contributes to CO2 build up, so do breathe "slowly and fully" as recommended by Scubagolf.

Other biggies in terms of "air-hoggism" are not swimming in trim and proper weighting. Think of the angle you hold your hand on the surface of the water when you want to splash somebody--about a 45° angle, right? The energy you put into the movement is transferred to the water itself so that it splashes up--and your hand slows down. If you use a flat hand, parallel to the surface of the water, you don't get the splashing effect because the energy you use doesn't transfer to the water itself and your hand just slides through. Now imagine that same positioning underwater. If you swim out of trim (usually with legs dangling down), in order for you to move forward you need to push a lot of water out of the way, and of course that takes a lot of energy. If you are horizontal in the water, you push a lot less water out of the way, meaning your energy is used mainly for your own propulsion.

Related to this is weighting, as Seaducer points out. If your legs dangle down, you will be finning yourself upwards at an angle rather than simply forwards. Divers who dive in this position usually think they need more weight because they are constantly rising in the water column, and then when they put more weight on the weight belt, their legs drop even further, meaning they become quite over-weighted. When this happens, these divers need to pump a bunch of air into the BC to get neutral, even at shallow depths, and they then end up with buoyancy issues. If you have the right amount of weight distributed so that it allows you to swim horizontally in the water, you work less to move yourself through the water more efficiently, and this results in improved air consumption.

Also as Bryan mentioned above with his barbie illustration, another important factor is fining technique. Bicycle kicks get you nowhere with a great deal of effort. The "barbie" image above with extended legs and pointed feet will produce an effective flutter kick (as long as you are horizontal). There are other kick techniques as well. I find that frog kicks are the most efficient for me. When I count kick cycles for 100 yard distances using both frogs and flutters, I kick about 1/3 fewer cycles with frogs. Imagine the savings on air consumption by not needing to use those long muscles of the thighs so much, as Lee noted!

The whole thing is like a tapestry with different aspects woven together: relaxation, breath control, weighting, trim, fining. This is why air consumption is one of the big frustrations of new divers--there are so many different facets of it to work on that it takes a while to get it all coordinated.

You CAN get there, though! Most of us have been in the same situation you are now in, and we have done it.

I did say my comfort has got to be breathing underwater. And going to take a lot of the feedback to heart. This board is a bevy of information, and try to incorporate it as much as I can. I think the greatest asset is the instructors and veteran divers. Because of them I had an instructor who thought I would fail OW certs because the weight belt I was using during pool sessions was a PITA and all over the place. As he was signing the paperwork he looked up to me and told me he was VERY surprised at overall how comfortable in the water I was and that it my issue was apparently gear related.

Right now, going back over my records I average about 25mins u/w, a few I was able to have about 30mins.

Just wish I lived a bit further south to take advantage of beach diving, or a bit further inland for the springs.

I have read up on the benefits of the frog kick. Is there a good vid/instruction on how to practice it? One of the dive instructors down on a Keys trip told me how she practiced it was by laying on her bed that way. For her it apparently paid off because she really moved through the water with little effort.
 
Well, it should be considering that its still under 1 yr old etc.
@BVickery: Valhalla makes a good point. It's certainly possible for new regs to come out of adjustment (or be improperly tuned from the beginning). If the reg is too difficult to breathe from, this will affect your breathing rate and may lead to carbon dioxide retention. If you are knowledgeable, tuning a reg should only take a few minutes. You may already have the tools necessary to do the job.

If you don't know how to work on your reg, then take it to a local reg repair shop (the place where you bought it?) and ask them to measure the cracking pressure on a magnehelic gauge. If it's within manufacturer specs (approx. 1" of H2O, depending on reg model), then you are all set. If you are a regular customer at the shop, they really shouldn't charge you anything for this service.

Good luck with everything...
 
You can also do a quick and dirty check on the cracking pressure -- fill a sink or bucket with water, and submerge the second stage in it with the mouthpiece pointing up. If you have to lower the reg more than about an inch into the water before it begins to freeflow, the cracking pressure is probably too high.

You CAN practice an effective breathing pattern on land, though. It's basically yoga breathing -- just deep, slow, regular breaths. If you internalize that pattern, you can carry it into the water with you. But you have to minimize your muscle activity to be able to make the best use of that type of breathing.
 
BV, you have probably been answered to death by now, but I will reaffirm that experience works (assuming you have reasonably good scuba habits). When former students chat with me, I usually hear notable changes in consumption somewhere between 25 aqnd 50 dives if they are diving frequently.

Otherwise I use these same instructional technique as with advanced buoyancy class and recommend they just get in the water and hover for 20 minutes and not do anything else at all. Focus Daniel-san. A zen kicks in.
 
BV, you have probably been answered to death by now, but I will reaffirm that experience works (assuming you have reasonably good scuba habits). When former students chat with me, I usually hear notable changes in consumption somewhere between 25 aqnd 50 dives if they are diving frequently.

Otherwise I use these same instructional technique as with advanced buoyancy class and recommend they just get in the water and hover for 20 minutes and not do anything else at all. Focus Daniel-san. A zen kicks in.

Actually, the more answers I get the better, especially if it benefits my underwater time.

As far as diving frequently, going to hopefully be moving further south = more time time.
 
You can also do a quick and dirty check on the cracking pressure -- fill a sink or bucket with water, and submerge the second stage in it with the mouthpiece pointing up. If you have to lower the reg more than about an inch into the water before it begins to freeflow, the cracking pressure is probably too high.

You CAN practice an effective breathing pattern on land, though. It's basically yoga breathing -- just deep, slow, regular breaths. If you internalize that pattern, you can carry it into the water with you. But you have to minimize your muscle activity to be able to make the best use of that type of breathing.

Thanks, I'll practice the yoga breathing on land, and bring my regulator into the shop and ask for the test since I don't have a tank. I actually felt that breathing with the Z2x was great, especially vs. the rental stuff.
 
You've already been given great advise.

If you are already calm and comfortable underwater, and you reg is in good working order, then you should focus on the 4-1-4 breathing rythm and kick technique.

I find that frog-kicking makes a HUGE difference in SAC rate. It's a kick- g l i d e - kick. You spend most your time in the glide phase.
 

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