Trouble in my openwater course

[boulderjohn]

Sadly except for having too many students on hand for one of the classes the instructor largely met agency standards. s.

It's hard to tell for sure because we are getting a partial description and we don't know the agency. If it's my agency, I counted at least 5 standards violations in the opening description. (I had to draw a couple of inferences to get that.) I am also going to infer that there were more standards violations the OP does not know about if all the pool work was done in one session along with a Discover Scuba class. I know that as an instructor I can't possibly do all of that under those circumstances, even if I do a crappy job on each skill.

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

It's hard to tell for sure because we are getting a partial description and we don't know the agency. If it's my agency, I counted at least 5 standards violations in the opening description. (I had to draw a couple of inferences to get that.) I am also going to infer that there were more standards violations the OP does not know about if all the pool work was done in one session along with a Discover Scuba class. I know that as an instructor I can't possibly do all of that under those circumstances, even if I do a crappy job on each skill.

Well I am not an instuctor so you may be right. But the biggest issue seemed to be the disorganization of the instructor. Being disorganized and chronically late is not a
standards violation that I am aware of. It is unprofessional however.


The student to instructor ratio is a standard and it appears that standard was not maintained. It's a wonder as many of us kept diving.


I know I felt lucky to live through my OW checkout dive #3. That was a group of eight students to one instructor at Farnsworth Bank. My instructor had us drop in current, on a pinnacle, 110 feet down. The pinnacle drops off beyond recreational depths on all sides. And this was done while wearing crappy rental gear. I seperated from the group due to equalization problems. What could have possibly gone wrong? I felt lucky to live through that, and yet I kept diving, so you see it really is a wonderful sport.

 

[boulderjohn]

I know I felt lucky to live through my OW checkout dive #3. That was a group of eight students to one instructor at Farnsworth Bank. My instructor had us drop in current, on a pinnacle, 110 feet down.

OK, another major standards violation. It should be reported. That is the only way that an agency can maintain its standards.

 

[kasdeva]

I did some checking after all the responses in this thread and carefully tried to find my instructors qualifications.

It is actually simple and disconcerting. I was taken in due to a lack of experience in how dive training is done. This shop has an owner that is a PADI SSI NAUI qualified instructor. He creates a course and calls it X. He then trains instructors himself to give course X and calls it X qualification. He will also throw in a NAUI dual certification at the end stating that his course exceeds that standard.

When I picked this course, I checked out the NAUI website and material and was comfortable that I will get good training if I have that certification. This whole course is broken and I am considering approaching NAUI to report this after I received my card.

Chalk this up as school fees. I will be redoing my training with a reputable trainer.

C'est la vie.

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

Usual open water classes provide just enough information that the new divers are not a danger to themselves most of the time. That is not a very high standard, but then that is partly the result of most consumers seeking out an inexpensive class. It sounds like the original poster realizes there is a problem and will seek additional training to address it.

Beyond the training there really is no substitute for experience. But please do those early dives in easy conditions and moderate depths until you have your act together. And beware of over confidence. Training that simulates failures is a real plus since we all dive well when things go perfectly. Your training should let you deal with less than perfect dives.

 

[String]

Which agency is this ? Nobody can claim what is/isnt a standards breach until they know that.

Having done my research I know that the agency she is representing requires the swim without a suit and its 300 meters.

leads me to believe its not padi as they dont do a 300m swim and do allow a suit (with weights).

 

[boulderjohn]

Which agency is this ? Nobody can claim what is/isnt a standards breach until they know that.

leads me to believe its not padi as they dont do a 300m swim and do allow a suit (with weights).

He said a few posts ago that he is being certified (and in another thread we learn that he has now been certified) by NAUI. The course itself is a hybrid course, but to be certified as NAUI, the instructor must be able to claim that the course meets or exceeds NAUI standards. The CW swim portion as described does not.

 

[Thalassamania]

I did some checking after all the responses in this thread and carefully tried to find my instructors qualifications.

It is actually simple and disconcerting. I was taken in due to a lack of experience in how dive training is done. This shop has an owner that is a PADI SSI NAUI qualified instructor. He creates a course and calls it X. He then trains instructors himself to give course X and calls it X qualification. He will also throw in a NAUI dual certification at the end stating that his course exceeds that standard.

When I picked this course, I checked out the NAUI website and material and was comfortable that I will get good training if I have that certification. This whole course is broken and I am considering approaching NAUI to report this after I received my card.

I would do so. But I would not expect much, though I do not know what the exact NAUI management in SA is. If he is running his own certification agency (as in a shop card) most agencies have a mechanism that would permit him, after the fact, to provide their card as well. I did much the same thing when I was teaching university programs, I issued a University certification card, and also a NAUI Master Diver card (as a convenience to those students who wanted one). But this was done with the specific approval of NAUI's National Training Director, which I doubt is this case here.

He said a few posts ago that he is being certified (and in another thread we learn that he has now been certified) by NAUI. The course itself is a hybrid course, but to be certified as NAUI, the instructor must be able to claim that the course meets or exceeds NAUI standards. The CW swim portion as described does not.

In the case of a University program (not knowing the exact lash up here), if the coursework itself was substantially the same or greater I doubt if NAUI would sweat the difference in swim tests, unless they were out looking for a reason to ding the instructor or shop.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I posted the NAUI OW skills needed on his other thread. The instructor in no way met them.

 

[Thalassamania]

Boulderjohn suggested to me in a series of PM that perhaps I was not clear enough and was taking too much for granted. So I'll post my PMs to him in the hope of clarifying what I was trying to say:

I don't know what standard NAUI in SA operates under. The current NAUI Experienced Diver standard requires that one be 15 years of age and have proof of at least 25 open water scuba dives to enroll in an Experienced Scuba Diver course. Candidates are first encouraged to take the "next class up," but they may take a written exam and do 4 dives. Earlier standards were somewhat vaguer, as I recall, and just required that all of the learning objectives of the entry level course be met (which could happen in a single dive). These earlier standards (or similar) could still be in effect in SA.

Under previous standards it was possible (though rather unlikely since the days of shop cards have long gone by) for a shop to teach a course that did not meet NAUI Standards (let's make it extreme, offer a course that was not taught by a certified instructor of any sort) and at the end issue a shop card. Then they could bring in a NAUI Certified Instructor who could administer a written exam and who make a single O/W dive with the student and issue a NAUI entry level credential. NAUI has closed this gap by requiring a log of 25 dives, a written exam and all four dives (which I'm sure pisses off the Navy guys for whom this clause was originally designed). I do not know if this is the standard that is in effect in SA, because there has been a separate NAUI South Africa organization since the late 1990s.

My only point was that the shop owner could respond (giving the older NAUI Standard) that the student was certified as a diver (shop card, the X-certification) with no dives (that was common in the old days, O/W was optional) and that he did all the required skills during his one and only dive. Shady business, but do you see the possibility?

Also, one of the open question here is, regardless of what the LDS owner's affiliations are, what certifications did the instructor hold?