Trip Report: My Experience in a Koh Tao Diving Factory

[aquamarin]

Well stevenl, that's one of the many reasons people keep coming back to book and/or dive with you

 

[stevenl]

Well stevenl, that's one of the many reasons people keep coming back to book and/or dive with you

You're right, I'm giving my secrets of the trade away here

 

[RussBKK]

Yes, I am surely wrong not to report to PADI, but I did not and will not. I like giving people the "benefit of the doubt". That does not mean I must exclude myself from ever writing a trip report.

Even PADI HQ has asked me to "name the center and instructor" who repeated told OW students they could not dive without a DM or Instructor until they were AOW certified, but I kindly refused. Maybe the instructor was under a lot of pressure to pay his bills? I don't know. To me, it was seriously wrong, but I don't want anyone to get in trouble over violating a PADI standard.

So funrecdiver, did you report this to PADI or not? Why would you you have been in contact with PADI HQ about it otherwise? Or are you simply making this up as you go along?

 

[lord khram]

Don't agree with you there. You sell what the client needs, not more. or maybe even better, you advice him.
But selling something beyond ones needs is IMO not a good business practice, even though your boss may be happy with you.

I agree entirely. Customers who are mis sold things, may at the time not realise if they are new to diving.
But later in their diving careers when they realise what a load of crap they were told by their open water instructor, may not be too happy about it and not wish to return to the particular DC.
It may come as a surprise to some instructors that some of their students are actually inteligent people with memories.
I tend to find this sell at all costs aproach is counter productive and short sighted. Much better to give customers what they want and need in a professional manner and build up a good business through repeat custom and recomendations.
I once witnessed at a nameless resort in Thailand an instructor telling two newly qualified divers it was imperative they purchased a dive computer if they were to continue diving. What do you think those guys would have thought on their return to the UK had they taken this 'advice' realising it was not true and the computer could actually be purchased for around half what it was pitched at?
Maybe some dive professionals should ask themselves that question before considering a bit of commission they might make?

 

[lord khram]

Maybe a CD can correct me if I am wrong, but during my IDC, I swear I received points during my presentations for mentioning a PADI product, like an AOW course, rescue etc. I am the first to admit that giving incorrect information is not kosher, but, sell sell sell, is actually the PADI way, as I suspect, it is the same for a lot of other agencies, but definately not all.

Recently working in Sydney, it was my job to encourage students to continue with further training. My hourly rate increased, as well as recieved commissions.

My point is this, sell sell sell is how dive shops make money and keep instructors employed.
Just as it is the job of a waiter to ensure you buy an entree and main and if they are lucky a dessert or a computer salesman selling you a computer that is beyond your needs, but has scard you enough to believe you really will need it in the future.

That is simply not true. Just because a CD or a DC owner tells you to do that it does not make it correct. To me what you are suggesting here would only point out fundamental flaws in the PADI system.
Speaking as a customer (not only relating to diving) if I go somewhere and recieve value for money in a professional and polite manner, I may return. If I do not recieve such a service I certainly will not return or give recomendations.
But obviously if the opinion of your CD is more important than the customer's opinion, this is probably why I have been dissatisfied at numerous DC's that I have visited over the years.

 

[jdfmail]

I also dive regularly with Dive S.E.A. in Pattaya. If you enjoy nice big comfortable boats with great food you should give them a try. Certainly the best boat that I've been on in Pattaya.

but it's still pattaya...

 

[marinediva]

LK,
You are correct I am suggesting it is part of the IDC, to incorporate sales into presentations.
Like I said maybe a CD can correct me if I am wrong.

In another life I owned an excellant restaurant. It relied on repeat customers and enjoyed a strong customer base. Service, and customer satisfaction is what kept them coming back year after year. It is not a matter of whether sell sell sell is wrong or right,

I am trying to point out that it is something that PADI instructors learn to incorporate in the IDC.
If that means the PADI system is flawed in the eyes of some, then so be it.
In saying that, I know there was a number of fellow candidates during my IDC that did not enjoy the PADI 'party' line, but if it got you points in a presentation, then thats what you did.

 

[DevonDiver]

I think that some divers live in a fantasy world. Running a scuba center is business.

Yes.... we enjoy a wonderful community and friendships through scuba diving, but NONE of us would dive (excluding scientists and military) if it were not for profit making business around the world who supply diving tuition, equipment and services.

PADI offer mass-market scuba diving and their 'model' has done a lot to enable anyone to enjoy affordable and accessable scuba diving worldwide. Part of that 'model' is to ensure that trainee instructors are aware of commercial skills that can enable sales and profitability for their businesses.

During the PADI IDC (instructor course), there is some focus in the grading system on making sure that trainee instructors take advantage of opportunities to INFORM customers of RELEVANT further education, services or equipment. Nothing more, nothing less. Please note the words INFORM and RELEVANT. This is nothing more than any business would seek to do with its customers....

Scuba shops are not charities. Their owners may be your 'friends',... but they don't want to go bankrupt either. Why can't some divers respect that?

 

[lord khram]

Again I agree entirely, up untill my early retirement I ran a (non diving) business myself. All businesses must return a profit to survive, and I would never criticise anyone no matter how big the proffit, provided it had been done fairly.
You hit the nail right on the head here Andy 'INFORM and RELEVANT', its called marketing, and again most businesses need to do it to promote themselves and succeed, yet again I would never complain if it is done responsibly.
Where the problems arise is when we are told wild exagerations / lies, or what ever name you want to call it by a D.C. to win our custom at all costs, and we (the customer) end up unhappy after our dives. See the reference I made in the earlier post (No 64). I myself have found this practice to be commonplace within diving around the world, as most of you that post on here are fully aware, and am not afraid to speak out about such practices.
If this is the result of over enthusiasm by a new instructor then again it can be excused and should be controlled by their superiors, but if it is something that is actively encouraged by PADI as is suggested by Marinediva, the system is certainly flawed.
Maybe some instructors could throw some light on the situation if themselves have been put under such pressures whilst training or after. It would certainly help us that have never been involved with IDC courses to better understand what go's on.

 

[h90]

Again I agree entirely, up untill my early retirement I ran a (non diving) business myself. All businesses must return a profit to survive, and I would never criticise anyone no matter how big the proffit, provided it had been done fairly.
You hit the nail right on the head here Andy 'INFORM and RELEVANT', its called marketing, and again most businesses need to do it to promote themselves and succeed, yet again I would never complain if it is done responsibly.
Where the problems arise is when we are told wild exagerations / lies, or what ever name you want to call it by a D.C. to win our custom at all costs, and we (the customer) end up unhappy after our dives. See the reference I made in the earlier post (No 64). I myself have found this practice to be commonplace within diving around the world, as most of you that post on here are fully aware, and am not afraid to speak out about such practices.
If this is the result of over enthusiasm by a new instructor then again it can be excused and should be controlled by their superiors, but if it is something that is actively encouraged by PADI as is suggested by Marinediva, the system is certainly flawed.
Maybe some instructors could throw some light on the situation if themselves have been put under such pressures whilst training or after. It would certainly help us that have never been involved with IDC courses to better understand what go's on.

Well I don't know how to express it, but I'll try with the risk to get misunderstood.
Nothing wrong with business and making money!

But I have the feeling before it was like: I love diving, I make a DC so I can earn my living with the thing I love to do.

Now I have the feeling a lot manager and investor try to make the maximum of money and diving is just the vehicle to do so. PADI is of course the right vehicle for them. perfect promotion material, perfect teaching materials, safe. For everything you need a new card and spending money, while really you are almost not allowed to do anything yourself anymore.

I understand that this is the way it is, I for my part bought the missing parts of my equipment (compressor/tanks) already and will dive without Dive Centers with local fishermen....double the fun and get in contact with locals as well.