Trip Report: My Experience in a Koh Tao Diving Factory

[funrecdiver]

....you seem to be avoiding the questions I posed to you by turning this discussion into questioning my motives in asking you in the first place.

Yes, I did question your motives, but now I understand. You have trained on Koh Tao and you have a lot of personal experience. You also admitted you have a personal bias because of your experiences. That is all understandable.

The reality is that my post was my trip report, based on my experience and I stand by the report, and it is not a trip report based on your personal experiences. I am not questioning your experience, because I have not read any of your trip reports.

If you did offer a trip report, as I have done, I doubt I would have replied with questions like "Did you ask every dive center if the had an AED"... which seemed like you were being sarcastic based on another thread. This simply showed your bias, which you have confirmed.

I don't have any bias about KT. I simply wrote down the facts, a simple trip report, based on my direct personal experience. I am completely at a loss why anyone would or could question my motives.

Isn't it OK to write an unbias trip report based on direct personal experiences while at the same time working very hard to "not to name names"? I am quite sure my report is well withing the SB TOS.

Unfortunately, many of the "attack replies" (not yours, some other people now banned) are clearly way out of bounds regarding both normal civility and the SB TOS. This must stop on the Thailand Forum and that is why Cave Diver posted a warning to people here in January 2010, 4 months before I registered here. This problem in the Thailand Forum of personal attacks when someone disagrees with a thread of a post needs to stop.

 

[funrecdiver]

Just for the record I was an illegal immigrant to Thailand.
would hate to think how many instructors there do visa runs,
Many have permits, and more do not.
Burmese immigrants live there. Many have relatives who live on the island.
The Burmese and Thai intermingled and married, they are an intricate part of
Koh Tao and that region, as the Burma border is adjacent.

And just for the record, I am not . I have held two work permits and worked legally here for both small companies and also a very large company on Sathorn Road in Bangkok. Now I am happily retired and very happily earn zero money in Thailand and spend a lot inside which I happily bring from outside. This makes Thailand very happy, as they really don't encourage foreigners to work here, but they love it when we bring in foreign currency and spend it here. Including hotel bills related to diving locations and diving, I easily spend over 100K baht a month on diving related activities and travel related to diving. I certainly don't need to hustle PADI students to pay the bills (as many seemingly do, I have recently discovered).

I first visited Thailand in 1981, can speak Thai pretty well (I learned Thai formally, the alphabet first, speaking second) and can read (menus, street signs, simple books, phrases) and spell (most Thai people are amazed when they tell me their name and I can spell it, getting the tone marks right as well). I have worked on many Thai committees, including two plus years as the only foreigner on the management committee of a Thai temple in the USA.

I consider the discussion of nationality and/or race not germane to the discussion of my experiences in a Koh Tao dive factory.

In addition, I don't think questioning my motives about a simple trip report to Koh Tao, or attacking me personally for posting a factual report based on a real experience, serves any constructive purpose. As SB TOS says, I think it is better, instead, to post your own trip reports and/or personal experiences which you have first hand knowledge. This is preferable than questioning the accuracy of my experience, which I have first hand knowledge, and you did not experience (or were even there, for that matter).

 

[marinediva]

Your report on this thread was very bias, as it did not suggest your first three days were great,
as you reflected in other threads you posted to.
I agree there is nothing wrong with someone giving a trip report,
where I feel and its only a personal opinion, you are out of line,
is accusing someone of fraud.
To other readers I hope it is clear that there are over 100 dive shops on Koh Tao.
As well as many independant instructors. The OP went to one and stayed 5 days.
His experience should not reflect on the rest of Koh Tao dive shops.

 

[funrecdiver]

Your report on this thread was very bias, as it did not suggest your first three days were great,
as you reflected in other threads you posted to.
I agree there is nothing wrong with someone giving a trip report,
where I feel and its only a personal opinion, you are out of line,
is accusing someone of fraud.
To other readers I hope it is clear that there are over 100 dive shops on Koh Tao.
As well as many independant instructors. The OP went to one and stayed 5 days.
His experience should not reflect on the rest of Koh Tao dive shops.

No, actually your reply continues to be both wrong and biased. I don't have any bias because I am simply a customer spending money. I am not a dive professional (and never will be because I don't want to make 1 baht off diving) who is bias because they cannot accept factual reports and honesty from customers. Here is how I opened my trip report:

First of all, this review (my observations) of a Koh Tao dive factory, or my experience there, is only based on one dive center. It certainly is not written to imply other, any or all dive centers on Koh Tao are like this. I cannot be the judge of that. Unfortunately, this experience has demotivated by interest in diving as a recreational sport (hopefully only temporarily).

Which part of "It certainly is not written to imply other, any or all dive centers on Koh Tao are like this" did you not understand?

Also, which part of my closing of my trip report did you not read/understand?

I did admire this particular dive resort for being such a successful dive-factory "full moon party circuit" diving business. I liked the owners, management and many people there. But regarding the reason I actually dive, I got the feeling this center had "lost the dive ethic" and lost the "moral high ground" due to the high-pressure "sell another dive cert/class" business model. Of course, money does that to people, as we all know. It's just not for me and I did not even know a dive center like this existed before. I may go back to playing golf for a while!

To their good credit, the management (owner) was very fair with me when I checked out; and I did not want to trouble them with these issues in the least, so they encouraged me to share my concerns privately, which I did a few days ago. I also mentioned my perspective directly (the night before checking out) with one of the independent instructors there (a great guy who hails from some of the save diving and dive centers) and he was the one who suggested I share my perception with the owners, which I have reluctantly done, privately.

I absolutely appreciated the kindness the owner, the most senior course directors and many others provided; and I simply have written this experience off as a "dive objective mismatch". (I have been careful not to provide direct or indirect information that would identify the dive resort in this review/trip report). I am sure for many others, especially those bouncing around doing full moon parties and calling grandma on Skype telling them they are hunting for a whale shark, the dive-factory model is great for many of them.

On the other hand, no student-customer I spoke with appreciated the constant sales pressure during their OW class; and in fact, it turned them off. However, they did not care so much (so they told me), as they had a good time at the full moon party at the other islands, they got their OW cert card, had some fun and were off to their next beach party. Most had not heard of Chiang Mai or Pattaya (most have never been to Bangkok) and this was their first time to Thailand. For them, they were having the time of their life.

I am sure I would have loved this center if I was their age and was going for my first OW class in between beach parties. It was simply a mismatch in experience and expectations from a dive center, in my case. Unfortunately, it may take some time to get back into the diving mood. I'm going to play golf this week for the first time in 4 months!

I think the fact of the matter is that, unless we post "hey the KT water is pretty and blue, the fish are so pretty, and we saw a pretty whale shark in KT" then we are, generally speaking, in for some attacks from those who love KT.... or so it seems, because posting a factual, first hand report of a real experience seems to just lead to a bunch of forum attacks by KT lovers, LOL.

OK, let's be happy!

"The KT water is pretty and blue, the fish are so pretty, and we might see a pretty whale shark in KT, oh goody, goody, goody....."

Happy now?

 

[marinediva]

yes Its all well and good to say that at the beginning of your post,
but as the thread moves on, maybe its just me but I feel
you give the impression that it is the whole of Koh Tao.
You do this explaning your response which was to leave the island.
Why leave the island if it was only one dive shop? why not go to another one?


Four days prior you said you were Hooked.
Maybe its me but seems fickle to me.

In any case, it is obvious all the other posters are now banned,
so I will gracefully bow out and let you continue to make the world aware that there is an instructor on Koh Tao committing fraud and your morals are higher cause you left the island and area.

 

[funrecdiver]

yIn any case, it is obvious all the other posters are now banned, so I will gracefully bow out and let you continue to make the world aware that there is an instructor on Koh Tao committing fraud and your morals are higher cause you left the island and area.

Actually, the only posters who get banned on SB are posters who violate the TOS. many of us work hard not to violate the TOS when we post, because we respect the TOS on this forum, other forums we post in, and the forums we manage.

I can still see by your reply you are bitter that I posted something about KT which you disagree with. Sorry about that....

Four days prior you said you were Hooked. Maybe its me but seems fickle to me.

And would it seem "fickle" to you if one day you went into a restaurant and had great food a few times and then you came back again and the chef poisoned you and you complained about it?

Or would it seem "fickle" to you if one day you were happy you bought a new home and a week later you discovered it has a rotting foundation, and you said something about it to people in your community?

I don't think so, marinediva. You simply are unhappy that I said something about KT (actually a dive center) which you don't like. if I said all was great, rosy, blue water, lots of fish, etc. you might really think I am so great; because that is what you would like to hear about KT.

Again, sorry for posting what I consider a very accurate and factual report, if it makes you unhappy.

 

[marinediva]

You were not poisoned nor did you buy a home,
if fact,
you simply disagreed with a sales pitch by an instructor
a misrepresentation that you claim as fraud,
one instructor
yes there is something sour in your posts,
but I would not suggest I am bitter.
It is your truth, you own it.

all I have done is ask you about facts that you have presented.
Do not demonise me for challenging your facts.
I am not angry/bitter/sad/or emotive in any way, why would I be,
I was not there. You have claimed the instructor committed fraud.

This is not about my opinion really as you have pointed out previously.
you are one person, out of thousands that visit monthly.
Like you have suggested, some people fit in, and others just don't get it.
best of luck

 

[funrecdiver]

And... if you do a Google search on Koh Tao and dive factory, which I did *after* I posted my review, you will see that I did not invent the term about some KT dive centers nor am I the only person to have commented on it. Lonely Planet, Trip Advisor.... many places on the net have similar comments.

Regarding the thousand who visit KT each month, I think I touched on that subject as well.... and I had very kind words about them as well.

You are the one, seemingly, who is taking a single trip report about one dive factory and then taking that as negative against the entire island and maybe the world too!

You even were angry with me when I pointed out a clear violation of PADI standards, you originally brushed it off, offhandedly, as normal up-selling. Clearly, we view the world differently. That is OK. You can write your own trip report. I look forward to reading it!

 

[marinediva]

I have many reports about my time on Koh Tao
Just read my previous posts.
you keep going back and changing your posts,
my discussion on this is finished.
like I said, good luck

 

[funrecdiver]

It is perfectly normal to edit a fresh post. That is why there is an edit button. I think on SB a post cannot be edited after a few days, but I don't know the exact time period.

Good luck to you as well. I heard it can be quite hard for many PADI instructors to make a living, and I hope you are not under any stress.

As for me, I do have a lot of luck. I am mostly retired, in great health, and I can dive where I like and don't have to work in the dive industry. It is not necessary for me to sell PADI courses or to teach. Anyway, after what I experienced on KT, I would never want to be a PADI professional in a large dive center where the pressure to sell, sell, sell is so high, nor would I ever wish to be a customer there again.

When you retire, you have a choice to work, travel and live as you please and dive the dive centers you like with the quality of service you enjoy. We all have different standards of livings, goals, dreams and aspirations. I am very lucky to have realized many of my goals, dreams and aspirations and to also be able to maintain a high set of standards and quality of living.

I would encourage all PADI professionals to never feel pressured to violate a PADI standard in order to up–sell a student. It is not good for the diving industry, PADI or anyone.