Trim and HP 119

[BobbyT22]

I was diving my relatively new drysuit yesterday, playing with my trim. I had a whole afternoon in the quarry just to screw around...heaven. I brought two tanks with me, my trusty Worthington X8 HP 119 and my wife's AL 80. I need no weight whatsoever with the 119 (and am still a little heavy in fresh water), and 6 lbs (2 x 3lbs in trim pouches on the lower tank band) with the AL 80. I usually dive either one or the other, but not both the same day, so for the first time I got to go back and forth between the two and what I learned is that I am considerably more vertical (head up) than I want to be with the 119 compared to the 80. My horizontal trim is far better with the 80. This is not something I would have noticed if I didn't dive the two tanks back to back, but with the 119 I am working harder to stay horizontal. My first thought was to shift the trim pouches to the top tank band and add some weight to get my head down when using the 119, but I am already heavy and don't want to add weight if I can help it. I can't shift the tank up on my back any more as the lower band is against the tank boot already. So, any ideas, or do I need to find another tank?

The 80 really was much less cumbersome underwater, and it required no effort to stay in proper horizontal trim. It has me thinking maybe an AL 100 is a good idea. A little more gas than an 80, but not the heavy beast the 119 is. The kicker is I'd probably have to sell the 119 to finance it. Thoughts?

 

[Scuba Ken]

I have the same problem with the 119, plus It likes to role me on my back since most of my weight is above my center of gravity. What worked for me will likely not work for you in a dry suit. I got thinker wetsuit boots to increase the buoyancy of my feet. Are you using a backplate? I know someone who dives it with a plate and doesn't have the issue. I'm also gonna try a circular donut wing to provide a more even inflation platform for it.

 

[TSandM]

What fins are you wearing? If you're wearing negative fins, switching to something neutral or positive night help. If your fins are negative, bending your knees more might help (putting the negative buoyancy closer to your center of mass, so it has less leverage). You can also route some gas into your legs and feet to help balance as well.

Adding weight when you are already overweighted is not an answer. Looking up the 119s, it doesn't look as though they're tiny, short tanks like the HP80s (which often won't balance well).

Another thought I had is to ask what kind of BC you are using? If you are using a soft BC and it won't adjust tightly enough, the tank may be quite low on your back, even if it is as high in the cambands as you can put it. This may not be fixable.

One final observation is that a counterintuitive possibility is that you are actually head HEAVY with the 119, and finding that the only place you can balance yourself is with your body reared up, because when you attempt to remain horizontal, you fall face first. This is easily addressed.

 

[Scuba Ken]

Personally, I dive it with a Transpac with a rec wing. I've had the tank up so high I can't tilt my head back as an experiment. But I still have weight on my belt so I think playing with distribution will eventually level me off. I do think that particular tank is heavy in the butt. As for the fins I was using they were TUSA xPert Zooms. I'm not sure what their buoyancy characteristics are.

 

[AQUAMAN2]

Hello everyone ,

I love my Press Steel EC 119 , I Order this tank before they stocked them at Pacific-
Wilderness once they were available ,wait 3 months $350.00 ,5 years ago.
Before that I had a 100cf steel , after I purchased the 119cf , I won a steel 120/119
big difference weight and lenght. I hardly use the 120 , maybe 4 times in 5 years.
Also a alum. 80 ,I had to have a 5lb weight attached to the tank.

I am more comfortable with The 119 I can stay Neutral longer with less change
I think it maybe a body issue ? I am 6' 4" 220lbs .and use a Back Bladder BCD.
Maybe a BCD lift issue ?

Tanks ,There is a lot of different ones if you keep looking you will find the perfect one.

 

[BobbyT22]

Hey, thanks for the quick responses. Some more info:
I dive a stainless steel Deep Outdoors backplate and wing. 34 lbs lift. Drysuit is a bare XCD2 Tech compressed neoprene w attached boots. Fins are SP Jets, steel spring straps.

TS & M, no worries about the counterintuitive head-heavy side. No faceplants if I relax things. I just realized that I am swimming down with the 119 to stay horizontal. If I don't consciously swim down, than I swim tilted up maybe 15-20 degrees. The 119 is short, round, and heavy, only 24 inches high.

My fins are certainly negative...but I love those jets!

In retrospect, it's not all that bad. I probably have 50 dives with the 119 and never really noticed. It was only after diving the AL 80 immediately after the 119 that I realized my trim was not what I though it was. Nothing I can't live with, but it would be nice to figure out the trim. And only after switching tanks did I notice what a bus I had on my back compared to the 80. But I like not needing extra weight and having the extra gas (why I bought the tank in the first place). I don't do deco, but it is also nice having a little air cushion and running out of time (mostly) before running out of air for most of the diving I do.

 

[TSandM]

Well, I'd say then work on bending your knees more, and put a little gas in your feet, and see if that solves the problem.

 

[Catt99]

My fins are certainly negative...but I love those jets!

I've never tried OMS slipstreams myself (so take this for what it's worth ) but I've followed numerous online discussions where jet owners have made a happy switch to slipstreams for trim or travel reasons - and of course others have tried the OMS fins and not like the differences compared to their jets. In any event, thought I'd throw it out there if you find the trim issues become a thorn in your side over time.

 

[b1gcountry]

A Couple thoughts:
1. Take the boot off. If it's not hitting your head, you still have room to bring the tank up.

2. Switch to an AL Backplate

3. Add a 1lb ankle weight to the tank neck and see how that feels. I used to think bare minimum weight was best, but now I don't worry so much if I'm a couple pounds heavy so long as I'm in "easy" trim.

 

[BobbyT22]

OK, will try some of the suggestions next time I'm diving. I didn't answer the body type question, maybe it is a body issue. I'm 5'9, 180, recreational weightlifter, I sink like a rock, I need very little weight when diving. Thanks for all the replies, will experiment some more next time out.

I still want to try that AL 100.

Rob