Tried to Kill Myself but Failed!

[lowwall]

Not really.
And it’s been shown empirically in aviation.

It does (in aviation) if you specifically delineate task responsibility and have the other party verify or query task completion.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Curious about the decision to breathe off your Air2 when you thought your main tank was empty though?

Hey Boarderguy..... My decision was really not a decision but more based on a long time mindset that if I ever needed to do an ESA or a CESA, that I would rather "re-breath" from my BC on the way to the surface rather than inhale seawater if it got to that point. I totally get that the "rebreathed" gas from my BC would be mostly carbon dioxide,,,,,,but still better than H2O.

 

[johndiver999]

I thought going to the Air 2 was a mindless instinctive action that, by chance was a correct move and allowed the OP to figure out the situation? The BC contents are never going to be more than a tiny bit Co2, BTW.

 

[Gone for diving]

that I would rather "re-breath" from my BC on the way to the surface rather than inhale seawater if it got to that point. I totally get that the "rebreathed" gas from my BC would be mostly carbon dioxide,,,,,,but still better than H2O.

I knew this, but surprised it's not more commonly talked about....
I know its technical but who knows how many lives it could save...

 

[Boarderguy]

I'd be concerned with the nasties present in the bladder. Mine is flushed thoroughly after each dive day/trip but I think I am in the minority doing that.

 

[crofrog]

Two brains catch more mistakes than one brain.

It’s unclear if this is from fear of retribution, fear of being wrong about the problem or correction, but several times, no correction was made, ending very badly. I actually saw this first hand with two very seasoned airline pilots where the senior guy truly screwed up a startup on a turbo prop. The co-pilot witnessed the screw-up but was afraid to speak up, resulting in about a million dollars worth of damage. Two brains didn’t seem to help that situation at all.

So you're saying that the second brain "caught" the mistake?

The issue with not acting on the mistake is a non-technical skills / CRM issue. The second brain did catch the mistake. What you proved is the need for non-technical skills training.

If you have a team, you have more chances to catch and correct the errors than when you don't. That is just math. The fact that issues exist with non-technical skills does not mean that having a single pilot (diver) is safer than a team.

You asserted you had "empirical" evidence but provided only anecdotes.

Here are some references for you:

• Helmreich, Merritt, & Wilhelm (1999) highlighted the importance of teamwork in promoting safety. They pointed out that non-technical skills, such as communication and mutual cross-checking in a multi-crew environment, significantly enhance error detection.
  • Foushee, H. C. (1984). Dyads and triads at 35,000 feet: Factors affecting group process and aircrew performance. American Psychologist, 39(2), 885-893.
  • Foushee, H. C., & Manos, K. L. (1981). Information transfer within the cockpit: Problems in intracockpit communication. In R. S. Jensen (Ed.), Proceedings of the Fourth Symposium on Aviation Psychology (pp. 286-291). Columbus, OH: The Ohio State University.
• Foushee (1984) and Foushee & Manos (1981) observed that effective crew coordination and communication were pivotal in catching and mitigating errors. Their studies showed that when crews operated cohesively, they were more effective in identifying and rectifying errors than those who did not.
  • Helmreich, R. L., Merritt, A. C., & Wilhelm, J. A. (1999). The evolution of Crew Resource Management training in commercial aviation. International Journal of Aviation Psychology, 9(1), 19-32.
• In studies conducted by Thomas & Petrilli (2006) on error management, it was identified that errors are inevitable in complex systems, including aviation. However, effective error management, which is more attainable in a multi-crew environment, can prevent these errors from escalating into more significant issues.
  • Thomas, M. J. W., & Petrilli, R. M. (2006). Crew Resource Management: Improving decision-making in commercial aviation. In E. Salas, H. A. O’Shea, & L. E. Burke (Eds.), Current Issues in Cockpit Performance and Teamwork (pp. 259-299). Ashgate Publishing.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Not really.
And it’s been shown empirically in aviation.

Actually, as a former helicopter crewman, I can attest that more than one brain has prevented helicopter crashes. The pilot cannot see behind, to the rear side, or under the helicopter.

SeaRat

 

[34109411]

So I’ve been on the fence on whether or not to post this……because it’s really hard to openly and publicly admit when you do something totally stupid. But then I thought more about it last night and figure that if it might provide some productive and positive food for thought and discussion…..or maybe help someone else from making the same mistake….that I really do need to talk about it.

Day before yesterday we are out on our boat and I’m doing a nice easy dive to celebrate my 68th B-day and get us a nice Lingcod for my B-day dinner. (it's a tradition thing) I’m a solo diver (certified SDI/TDS) and have done this dive many times with no issues. Nice easy exchange with little current, descent vis of about 10 ft.. I dive an HP102 Steel with a back-mount 19cf pony and a Zeagle Ranger BC.

My wife snapped the pic below right before I donned my hood, mask, gloves, fins, speargun & stringer prior to back-roll entry over the side. In looking at the pic I have realized my mistake and what happened. The “yellow” circle is my primary Apeks 2nd stage. My pony second is kinda hidden just below and behind my right hand. The “green” circle is the clip that I normally route my pony hose through so that the pony 2nd is basically is right in front of me, always there and easily accessible. Once I finished kitting up with all my crap for the dive, I was in a rush to splash and inadvertently must have grabbed my pony 2nd rather than my primary, inserted the pony 2nd into my cake-hole, took a couple of hooves, then back-rolled into the Sound. All seemed good so I gave my wife the OK, swam forward, descended the anchor line to about 60ft and began my hunt.

About 10 minutes into the dive and after bagging and stringing a nice dinner Ling, I noticed my reg getting a bit stiff to breath….then the next breath where there was NO gas. I immediately went for my pony 2nd, but it wasn’t there in it’s normal spot because it was already in my mouth and not in it’s normal clip. My brain is spinning and totally telling me that my main gas supply is depleted for some reason and I NEED my pony 2nd. I have a moment of what I would call “high anxiety” and possibly first stage panic. My brain is saying WTF??? ESA??? so I go to my BC / Air 2 thinking that I can “re-breath” on the way to the surface if needed. The Air 2 immediately delivers blessed gas from my still full primary tank and I am some how able to calm down, settle to the bottom, re-group and access the situation.

I check my pony SPG and it’s zeroed out so I start to realize my mistake. I sweep and recover my primary 2nd, switch to that from my Air 2….and all is good. I check my primary computer and realize that I still have 3350psi of a 3500psi fill. The picture of what happened starts to clarify in my mind and I bet I spent a good full minute or two on my knees just breathing and slowing down my heart rate as I stare at my primary AI computer and see that I have LOTS of primary gas available and all is well.

Being solo and with my redundant gas now gone, I call my dive and nav back to the anchor line and my marker strobe…….make a nice slow ascent with SS and surface with plenty of primary gas remaining. Had a great Lingcod dinner and glad that I get to be a year older…

Anyway….. it’s not easy to post this because I’m totally embarrassed that I made such a stupid flipp’n mistake…. But hoping that we might be able to have some productive conversation about it.

My “personal” lessons learned.

• Confirm, crosscheck, double check and triple check all configurations and functions before splashing.
• Confirm, crosscheck, double check and triple check all configurations after splashing.
• Don’t be lazy about checking gauges early and often. If I had checked my primary gas PSI earlier I would have realized that I wasn’t using my primary gas.

That’s it. Sorry about the long post and thanks for listening….

As a solo diver myself, No worries about your post, your still alive we all learn and share experience. Personally I slung my tank under my arm. I do one full check before I enter the water, and another just before going down. i

 

[Nemrod]

There is about a cup of air in my BC, at least in warm water configuration, so will not be doing much breathing from it. Really, the idea of breathing from a BC is not so good in practice. As to "nasties" in the bladder, anyone in such dire need that they need to attempt to breath from a BC is not going to care about nasties in the bladder. I usually drop a Sterimine pill into my wings after using them and during rinsing out.



As to any nasties in the BC bladder, I can assure anyone they are nothing compared to inhaling seawater and then having aspiration pneumonia that then progresses to bacterial infection. And took me two months and two courses of antibiotics plus two shots to be rid of. Seawater is just full of nasties. The laryngeal spasm that likely will result from mammalian reflex when inhaling seawater (or any water) will prevent any breathing entirely or near about.

 

[Tanks A Lot]

There was a case in 2009 about breathing from a BCD with a subsequent article in 2011 which may be of some interest:

Undercurrent.org