The Grand Traverse County Board may not allow a local group to sink a small vessel in Grand Traverse Bay. See: http://www.recordeagle.com/friday/local_story_285100110.html
Traverse Bay shipwreck delayed
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If the the above link does not work, try pasting it into your search engine. If it still fails, you can find it on the Traverse City Record Eagle website. It is in the Friday, October 12 edition. Front page story "County Board may reconsider..."
bladephotog
Contributor
I had a hard time finding it but I did so I'll post it. It's a pretty interesting read considering the somewhat recent discussion on here. ---
Board reconsiders plan to sink boat in bay
Deputy prosecutor warns commissioners of liability issues
By Brian McGillivary
bmcgillivary@record-eagle.com
TRAVERSE CITY -- County commissioners may rethink their support of a plan to sink a retired 85-foot trawler and create a Grand Traverse Bay diving attraction.
A group dubbed The Grand Traverse Bay Underwater Preserve Council wants to sink the boat, but some commissioners are fretting about liability insurance costs and potentially conflicting statements made by project proponent Greg MacMaster, a local television meteorologist.
Commissioners last month -- despite cautions raised by their financial and legal advisers -- agreed to obtain the Togue, a converted shrimp boat used by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service for Great Lakes research.
County officials had asked the board to delay a decision while they cleared up questions about insurability, liability, winter storage and what the county will do with the boat if the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality refuses to grant a sinking permit.
"I feel more comfortable answering the questions and then buying the ship, not buying the ship and then answering the questions," county Administrator Dennis Aloia told the board.
Liability concerns
Deputy County Prosecutor Bob Cooney warned the board about liability concerns, both before and after the ship is sunk. The DEQ, he said, does not want to assume liability for the boat, and could require the county to do so itself before granting a permit to sink the Togue.
"The county should go into this with the presumption we will be sued if anything bad happens," Cooney said.
MacMaster, the preserve council's president and executive director, disagreed. He said the law "seems pretty clear-cut" on the liability issue.
"The minute (the ship) touches the bottomlands, it becomes the state's (property)," MacMaster said.
MacMaster said liability is not the DEQ's responsibility, but the state attorney general's.
He told commissioners at a Sept. 26 meeting that Attorney General Mike Cox informed state Sens. Michelle McManus, R-Lake Leelanau, and Jason Allen, R-Traverse City, that liability for the boat is not an issue because the state has governmental immunity.
Not so, the local officials said.
"I've never gone to the attorney general for an opinion," McManus said. "That's a long and lengthy process; it takes three to six months at least."
Allen also said he hasn't spoken to Cox.
MacMaster now says Cox personally told him liability shouldn't be a concern during a "casual conversation" the two had on Front Street during the National Cherry Festival parade.
Cox spokesman Rusty Hills said Cox recalled speaking with MacMaster, but said the conversation was about a historic wreck near the Upper Peninsula, not about sinking a ship in Grand Traverse Bay.
MacMaster said he and Cox covered both topics.
Some commissioners said they are "extremely concerned" about MacMaster's statements.
"The impression I got was that a serious discussion had taken place and certainly a serious discussion is different than a casual conversation," said Commissioner Christine Maxbauer.
Decision may be reconsidered
Maxbauer said she will ask the board to reconsider its decision when it meets at 7 p.m. Oct. 31 at Mayfield Township Hall.
Other commissioners said they are less concerned about MacMaster's statements than the cost of liability insurance.
The only condition commissioners put on their unanimous approval to obtain the boat was that the county obtain liability insurance.
Dean Bott, county finance director, said the county's liability insurance won't cover ships over 75 feet long. He said their carrier is looking to find another company to insure the ship, but he was warned the insurance will be "pricey."
"If we can't obtain insurance for a reasonable cost, I'm going to rethink my position on it," said Commissioner Larry Inman.
Commissioner Herb Lemcool said his biggest concern is they'll end up with a ship they can't sink or use. MacMaster assured the board a permit to sink will be granted.
"We have state legislators who are going to baby-sit this all the way through," MacMaster said.
"I have no idea what (MacMaster) is referring to," said state Rep. Howard Walker, R-Traverse City, who has been the most active legislator on the issue. "There are laws that need to be followed."
County Commissioner Wayne Schmidt had a different back-up plan.
"Worst case scenario if we can't sink it we'll sell it for scrap," he said.
Board reconsiders plan to sink boat in bay
Deputy prosecutor warns commissioners of liability issues
By Brian McGillivary
bmcgillivary@record-eagle.com
TRAVERSE CITY -- County commissioners may rethink their support of a plan to sink a retired 85-foot trawler and create a Grand Traverse Bay diving attraction.
A group dubbed The Grand Traverse Bay Underwater Preserve Council wants to sink the boat, but some commissioners are fretting about liability insurance costs and potentially conflicting statements made by project proponent Greg MacMaster, a local television meteorologist.
Commissioners last month -- despite cautions raised by their financial and legal advisers -- agreed to obtain the Togue, a converted shrimp boat used by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service for Great Lakes research.
County officials had asked the board to delay a decision while they cleared up questions about insurability, liability, winter storage and what the county will do with the boat if the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality refuses to grant a sinking permit.
"I feel more comfortable answering the questions and then buying the ship, not buying the ship and then answering the questions," county Administrator Dennis Aloia told the board.
Liability concerns
Deputy County Prosecutor Bob Cooney warned the board about liability concerns, both before and after the ship is sunk. The DEQ, he said, does not want to assume liability for the boat, and could require the county to do so itself before granting a permit to sink the Togue.
"The county should go into this with the presumption we will be sued if anything bad happens," Cooney said.
MacMaster, the preserve council's president and executive director, disagreed. He said the law "seems pretty clear-cut" on the liability issue.
"The minute (the ship) touches the bottomlands, it becomes the state's (property)," MacMaster said.
MacMaster said liability is not the DEQ's responsibility, but the state attorney general's.
He told commissioners at a Sept. 26 meeting that Attorney General Mike Cox informed state Sens. Michelle McManus, R-Lake Leelanau, and Jason Allen, R-Traverse City, that liability for the boat is not an issue because the state has governmental immunity.
Not so, the local officials said.
"I've never gone to the attorney general for an opinion," McManus said. "That's a long and lengthy process; it takes three to six months at least."
Allen also said he hasn't spoken to Cox.
MacMaster now says Cox personally told him liability shouldn't be a concern during a "casual conversation" the two had on Front Street during the National Cherry Festival parade.
Cox spokesman Rusty Hills said Cox recalled speaking with MacMaster, but said the conversation was about a historic wreck near the Upper Peninsula, not about sinking a ship in Grand Traverse Bay.
MacMaster said he and Cox covered both topics.
Some commissioners said they are "extremely concerned" about MacMaster's statements.
"The impression I got was that a serious discussion had taken place and certainly a serious discussion is different than a casual conversation," said Commissioner Christine Maxbauer.
Decision may be reconsidered
Maxbauer said she will ask the board to reconsider its decision when it meets at 7 p.m. Oct. 31 at Mayfield Township Hall.
Other commissioners said they are less concerned about MacMaster's statements than the cost of liability insurance.
The only condition commissioners put on their unanimous approval to obtain the boat was that the county obtain liability insurance.
Dean Bott, county finance director, said the county's liability insurance won't cover ships over 75 feet long. He said their carrier is looking to find another company to insure the ship, but he was warned the insurance will be "pricey."
"If we can't obtain insurance for a reasonable cost, I'm going to rethink my position on it," said Commissioner Larry Inman.
Commissioner Herb Lemcool said his biggest concern is they'll end up with a ship they can't sink or use. MacMaster assured the board a permit to sink will be granted.
"We have state legislators who are going to baby-sit this all the way through," MacMaster said.
"I have no idea what (MacMaster) is referring to," said state Rep. Howard Walker, R-Traverse City, who has been the most active legislator on the issue. "There are laws that need to be followed."
County Commissioner Wayne Schmidt had a different back-up plan.
"Worst case scenario if we can't sink it we'll sell it for scrap," he said.
Greg_MacMaster
Guest
Well folks, don't believe everthing you read because there were clarifications a week before the article went to press and none of that made it in. It would have taken out the "meat" of his article. Also, the local group isn't pushing to sink this vessel. If they had their choice of one vessel to sink, it would be much bigger - however, they do offer up a list of volunteers to assist the county in the intentional sinking as a state project (not local as in non-profit). It's a pilot project in terms of a scientific platform for research. So there are many parts to this article that aren't true. Facts are on paper which will be distributed at the next council meeting to verify what was said earlier and not written into the first article.
Greg_MacMaster
Guest
It's a shame that things happen this way.
The Traverse County Board meeting to discuss this project again will be held at the Mayfield Township Hall (Mayfield twp is just east of Traverse City) at 7 pm. Some of the proponents are expected to offer explanations for what has appeared in the Record-Eagle. It is possible the Board will simply walk away from the project because of the confusion about facts.
deepH2Odiver
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I've been observing the progress of this topic for a while - I smell a skunk and some dirty work going on here. :no It looks to me that Calvillo is trying to undermine something/someone here.
Don't know what your problem or beef is - but you have something up your sleeve.
Don't know what your problem or beef is - but you have something up your sleeve.
truth squad
New
DeepH2Odiver,
not sure its road kill tho.......MacMaster posted some pretty strong words about a certain news reporter and newspaper reporting about certain events centering around MacMaster. MacMaster has since been playing spindoctor to his ill advised comments.
Unfortunately for him, He doesn't have the skill to fool all the people, all of the time.
:no
Truth Squad
PS. I do have a copy of his statement for those interested
not sure its road kill tho.......MacMaster posted some pretty strong words about a certain news reporter and newspaper reporting about certain events centering around MacMaster. MacMaster has since been playing spindoctor to his ill advised comments.
Unfortunately for him, He doesn't have the skill to fool all the people, all of the time.
:no
Truth Squad
PS. I do have a copy of his statement for those interested
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