Transporting tanks in vehicles
- Thread starter CaptainPanda
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BRT is spot on. Some laws LEO know, some laws they don't, and some laws they "know" incorrectly. LEOs are not expected to know every single law on the books. Between federal, state, county and local municipality laws (in the US), the quantity of text that they would have to memorize would be astronomical. I am always going to wish that they knew more related to my situations, but I can't fault them for not knowing it all.
2airishuman
Contributor
Another Minnesota diver here with a Minnesota perspective.
Exceptions to the requirement to transport cylinders upright
49 CFR § 173.301 - General requirements for shipment of compressed gases and other hazardous materials in cylinders, UN pressure receptacles and spherical pressure vessels. contains the regulations in question, which require that the valve be protected. The customary way to do this is to secure the cylinders in an upright position.
It is also permissible to pack cylinders in boxes. I have sturdy wooden boxes that hold four cylinders each, horizontally, which I use. They fit under the tonneau cover on my pickup.
Materials of trade exemption
The limitation on commercial transport of "materials of trade" is 440 pounds including packaging, not 1000 pounds as stated upthread. See 49 CFR § 173.6.
Identification of the contents of cylinders is required. I label mine with stickers that I believe are compliant.
Not in commerce/not in interstate commerce
The situation varies from state to state. All states incorporate the federal hazmat regulations into state law to some degree, but they do it in different ways. Interstate and international travel makes matters more complex.
My experience in Minnesota and surrounding states/provinces
I dive with my kids in remote lakes, on weekends, where there is no source of air fills. Therefore we carry quite a lot of air, and have done so in South Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Ontario.
Typically we carry 14 primary cylinders. I pack 8 into the boxes, and then usually bring 3 twinsets. Then we bring some smaller cylinders and some oxygen. Key points:
1. Everything is in hydro.
2. Everything is safe. Valves are plugged (DIN valves with sealing plugs). Things are secured.
3. Everything is clearly marked using standard symbols and words. It is not, for example, marked "Voodoo gas."
4. Everything is out of sight under the tonneau cover, because there is no point drawing unnecessary attention.
Most law enforcement throughout MN/WI, in my experience, likes scuba divers because there is usually a dive team affiliated with their outfit in some way. The dive team is usually an elite bunch that the non-diving public safety people aspire to join or at least have respect for. My encounters have always been when we are parked and gearing up or putting things away after a dive.
I have not had problems with customs. If they see the cylinders they ask about them and I tell them we are scuba diving.
I believe it is important to mark the cylinders mainly because, in the event of a crash, the responding fire department will have a protocol for dealing with hazardous materials. If the materials are unmarked, they have a procedure for dealing with them that requires them to close off a large area and treat them as something extremely dangerous. A special hazmat team may be called out. On the other hand, if they are marked, they handle them according to the hazards as marked or according to their procedures for the substance in question. It could make the difference between getting your cylinders back or not, and a court case or not. Stickers are cheap.
I will post some photos of the boxes and stickers tomorrow.
The truck will probably sink when it gets to the Atlantic ocean anyway.
My assumption was that a small value supported personal property and over a thousand would require a quantity that was most likely not personal property. It would prevent movers from skirting manafest adn other requirements. And that value is not based on todays money but decades ago when 1000$ of tanks was many more than today.
I dont think we can ignore the state and local laws in effect so that when someone is trying to quote a federal regulation in support of a position it does not take into account the local laws that are in addition to the regs. The regs are not to be MAX regulation, but rather minimum regulation standards to be met. For one person from ohio and another from arizona to butt heads on an issue could be moot because they are both right per their state regs.
I got hit with this one time at a motel where I brought my tanks into the room to keep them out of the trunk in 100+F temps of the parking lot. They seized my tanks because they wree lying down and cited OSHA and other regs. Said they had to be standing and secured wtih chain or restraining device. they took the tanks and put them ins a closet unsecured. I made then get rope and secure them to be a PITA. A month later I did the same thing and it was OK because the controlling person no longer worked there. The difference then was explained as whether they were bulk storage tanks or not. I have also seen inspections where a LDS gets hit for not having tanks restrained with chains in the sales room. That got over turned because the tanks had no pressure in them and as such was not HAZMAT and exempt to the standing chain secured reg's. Tanks in the fill room was a different matter as HAZMAT containers had to be restrained.
As someone referenced earlier regarding the IRS. There is a difference between an IRS approved deduction and a APPROVED Irs deductions. the wording order is critical. One is derived form a general guidance book and the other is a specific letter issued from the IRS for a specific case. IRS will tell you that when you call the help line any advice is not biinding because the source is not a legal standing for a specific case. The entire regulation system is much subject to opinion and as such when 2 people discuss standards you seldom are taking apples to apples. Much like tanks in a show room vs tanks in a filling room vs cascade tanks vs scuba tanks. Lets not forget the insurance companies input to boot. To talk general shipping requirements also reauires the deterination of whether it is comercial or non comercial. As a prodict of the final consumer obligation it will vary form town to town while all the time comlying with the fed regs.
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