Training Death in Coz - what could have been done differently?

[Airleron]

I also agree with getting certified separately. My husband was first (1985), I was next with a friend (1986), then my kids (2002). When my husband got certified, I wasn't interested. A year later, my co-worker and I took the plunge. When my sons got certified, I re-took OW with them since I did not dive for several years. We recently went shore diving together at BHB (shallow), and I looked over and saw my oldest remove his mask, check out the straps and "study" his mask problem for several minutes. It was completely no big deal. He hadn't dived in 3 years.

 

[elan]

From my little experience observing others and myself going beyond ones comfort level is one of the primary source of problems. Poor judgment as we were taught in the rescue class.

Just want to brng a story to support that happened this weekend. We (my wife and I) were doing a drift dive along a wall going down to 100' next to a group of AOW students in the place that had downward and upward currents. The whole group fell to the bottom with the downward current and instructor barely had to pull everyone up. At first I felt that my gauge is malfunctioning as I was trying to correct my buoyancy to go up and I was still slowly going down. Glance at my wife's gauge confirmed we are taken down by the current and our readings are accurate. So we just kept on swimming up to maintain the same depth. After a couple of minutes the situation stabilized and we could just stay at the same depth with no effort. 5 mins later we got caught into the upward stream and had to do the opposite to maintain the depth.

At this point a girl has popped up to the surface from 60' in an uncontrolled accent. From what I have observed most of them dd not feel comfortable with their buoyancy skills and tracking the instruments. I think 80% were constantly treading water to maintain their level. On another dive to 95' wreck one of the students literally went down like a stone and hit the bottom loosing control of his buoyancy.

So they should not have attempted to do that dive at their comfort level , but Instructors try to make more fun out of the dive trips so they take them to those challenging places.

 

[elan]

As to certifying together or not we have that case as well. We have certified together with my wife but she was not diving much so I got more experience at this point. Now she feels much more comfortable and she said that there were times when she was freaking out but the fact that I was close calmed her down.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

There's another aspect to parent/child certification that parents rarely think about but which I always try to bring up before we start. And that's the question of what happens in the case of an accident?

The usual quick reply, is, "Oh don't worry, I will always be the one diving with little Janie so if anything goes wrong I'll be right there."

But that's not what I'm talking about.

The question I always pose is: What if something happens to YOU, the parent? And what if Little Janie can't rescue you or even does everything possible but . . . you die? How will that affect them for the rest of their lives?

There's no easy, set answer here. Risk is something that's part of the sport. And the reality is that it's a very safe sport, especially if you stay alert and pay attention. But even though you may do all the diving parts right, you can't predict that unexpected heart attack.

The point of all of this is that it's simply something you as the parent should think about and be aware of, and you may need to talk to your child about it as well.

This whole concenpt was really drivien home for me many years ago when I was certifying a 12-year-old and recertifying his father. I'd previously certified the older daughter, the father, and the mother. So I knew the family quite well.

And in the course of our classroom work, we'd talked about accidents, rescues, fatalities, and the concept that you can sometimes do everything right and it's still possible to not have a successful outcome.

We were at Catalina in the Avalon Underwater Park doing our first day of cert dives. I always start with a lengthy (45 minutes or so) snorkel/free-dive that ends with surface rescue skills that include full-blown unconscious diver rescue, mouth-to-mouth, and tow.

We were at the outer edge of the Park boundary and I had just finished the briefing for the rescue and had said, "Now the chances of you having to do this for real are minimal . . ." when one of my students said, "There's a woman behind you waving for help." I thought he was kidding. I turned around. He wasn't kidding. I turned back to the group and said, "Stay here with Betsy (my assistant) and I'll be right back."

I swam quickly over to the waving woman expecting that she was the one in trouble. Turns out it was her buddy who was unconscious on the bottom. We brought her up, towed her in (giving mouth-to-mouth the whole way), got her up on shore, and handed her off to the Avalon Paramedics who began CPR and defib. She was eventually transferred to a Baywatch boat, taken to the Chamber and ended up in a coma. A few months later she was taken off life support.

While all of this was going on, Betsy had brought the class in to shore. After the woman had been taken away, we all got together and talked about what had happened.

My 12-year-old student (and the point of this long story) was really shaken up by the incident. The idea of death to him wasn't very real until he saw me towing this woman in and then saw her on the ground with medical appliances in, guys giving CPR, and trying to shock her heart.

It really shook him up. He and I and his dad talked for some time that day about it. He wasn't sure if he wanted to continue or not. (He did and has actually become not only a very good diver but also does volunteer work restoring kelp beds through Santa Monica Baykeeper.)

So if you're getting certified with your child or if you're an instructor who has a child as a student, try to have a really lengthy heart-to-heart with them about death and diving. It may not be enough for them to just say, "I get it," and something a little more deeper and detailed might be required.

- Ken

 

[DeputyDan]

Probably the best thing to remember, especially with mask clearing, is that as long as you can breathe, anything is solveable. I always have my students spend a decent amount of time breathing off the reg with their mask totally off to get them used to the idea that if the reg's in your mouth and functioning, problems can be solved.

- Ken

I think this is the key to training. If we/and the student can remember this much of the panic issue can be avoided.

If you dive with any regularity - you will have an underwater mask problem.

My closest to being a statistic was looking back for my dive buddy in a current at depth. I looked back and my mask came right off with the current. I was able to grab it "because I felt is coming off" but the moment of truth was - I can breathe - I'm not drowning - fix the vision (mask) issue and then reorient myself to where I am.

 

[jtpwils]

The question I always pose is: What if something happens to YOU, the parent? And what if Little Janie can't rescue you or even does everything possible but . . . you die? How will that affect them for the rest of their lives?

.....
So if you're getting certified with your child or if you're an instructor who has a child as a student, try to have a really lengthy heart-to-heart with them about death and diving. It may not be enough for them to just say, "I get it," and something a little more deeper and detailed might be required.

- Ken

Thanks - not just for me but for the parent that may be considering diving with their child and not consider this.

For my part. I'm very upfront and forward, and I've been a volunteer EMT for years. Thus myself and my kids know that sometimes people die - despite the best efforts of people, including me. And sometimes they are old people and sometimes they are people who are young and "not supposed" to die; but they do.

Before being willing to sign us up for classes we talked at length about the possibilities of diving fatalities, we read and discussed the "who's responsible for what" thread, that she can't expect me to protect her, nor her I, from the risks of diving - which is not to say that we won't help each other. Ultimately, we had a good discussion about the fact that we each need to protect ourselves through training and braining, but still she may need to help save me some day, and vice versa. And that perhaps, it may not work out, despite everyone's best efforts.

We also talked about it with my wife - although in a bit less detail. Oddly enough, or maybe not so oddly, she was much more uneasy about it than either of us. She also is someone that I would never in a million years allow to dive. I've seen her panic on the surface while snorkeling because an unfamiliar - and beautiful clear 3 ft. long jelly fish, swam in front of her.

Anyway, in another thread I mentioned that I was getting a physical before diving even though the PADI medical questionaire answers didn't require it. When I told some people that I didn't want to have diving be the screening test for an underlying fatal medical condition, and that it would be bad enough to die, but worse to do it in front of my daughter who would be trying to save me - they looked at me like I was sick in the head. Funny, because I think people who figure everything is fine, in health or anything else, until they are proven wrong are the nuts. But that's just me.

 

[jkaterenchuk]

Of course, I am not looking to place blame upon anyone but, other than the boys own actions, i.e. breathe and not hold his breath,what could have been done? Should the instructor have had hold of his tank valve? Stayed close enough to grab a part of his equipment? Is there anything other than the actions of the diver that could have saved this boys life?
Thanks,
Jim

As a direct answer to your question. On my Instructor Certification Test we were required to maintain contact and control over a students in situations in which a panic could result in loss of gas.bouyancy control or bolting for the surface. Mask clearing is one of those situations. From my experience in teaching classes in which the OW dives are done in cold quarry waters it is one of the most likely times when a student will panic and bolt to the surface. Regardless of what amount of warning I give them about the cold water hitting their face or how proficient they are in the pool. Consequently, I am always right in front of them with one of my hand on their BCD shoulder strap and the other ready to put my Octo in their mouth as spitting their regulator out seems to come immediately after they panic and want to head for the surface.

I have no idea if this was done on the dive you mention or if it would have changed the result. All I know is I am prepared for it to happen and I can slow the student ascent rate enough such that an lung overexpansion injury is less likely.

John

 

[djdande]

One of the main things to instill is DO NOT PANIC..Calm down and apply what you have learned in class and through practice to rectify the problem, if one exists...

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Well, If you and your daughter are secure in answering yes to these questions, all should go smoothly.
1. Are you satisfied that you are prepared to plan and carry out a dive?
2. Do you know your limits? And will you obey them?
3. Are you confident in your instructor?
4. Have you practiced your skills and have you mastered them?
5. Were you taught the panic cycle and have you learned to recognize and stop it?
6. Nervous is okay, but are you ready to go to the sea?

These are just a few off the top of my head.

As an instructor, I try not to teach parent and child together. If so, they are never each other's buddy and I have a divemaster as the child's buddy. This way a new buddy student doesn't worry either.

My own kids certified at 10 and 12, and were complete rock stars. I find it to be that way with most of the kids I have taught. If I feel they are mature enough for the course, they usually do very well. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

[TSandM]

OP, you sound very grounded and realistic about this. The fact is that scuba is a sport in which one can die, and all of us who do it need to realize that.

I know that, in the classes my husband teaches, we try to set it up so that we have every chance to head off problems before they occur, or to control them if they do. When students are doing mask skills, for example, Peter's directly in front of them and I hover above them, prepared to intercept if they try to bolt. But I have learned that I can have problems stopping even a student who has gotten excessively buoyant, let alone one who is in full panic and bolting with determination to the surface -- the only thing I might be able to do in that situation is something to get them to breathe.

So, in answer to the original question, I think the most important thing that can be done to prevent tragedies is to do the best assessment of temperament and maturity that you can do before the class begins (and maybe get some practice in a pool with a mask and snorkel).