Training Death in Coz - what could have been done differently?

[jtpwils]

My 12 year old daughter and I are starting our OW confined dives tonight. I realize that we don't know exactly what happened in Mexico but there is one obvious risk that's been highlighted in the training and, based on the limited information that is known, has also been raised as a possible role in the boys death; lung expansion injury.

Of course, I am not looking to place blame upon anyone but, other than the boys own actions, i.e. breathe and not hold his breath,what could have been done? Should the instructor have had hold of his tank valve? Stayed close enough to grab a part of his equipment? Is there anything other than the actions of the diver that could have saved this boys life?

I know that suba is an inherently risky acitivity and this has all been discussed very much with my daughter, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that this tragedy hasn't had me re-evaluating the decision to have her train with me.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[AuburnFan]

Can you post a link to an article about the incident?

 

[Walter]

Without knowing the details (and we likely never will), your question is impossible to answer.

 

[diver 85]

Let me give you our(past) experiences...Wife & I have 3 children, all adults now....The oldest certified @ age 14 with my wife & I in 1985, the other 2 @ age 12 each on or about their 12th birthdays(1989 & 1993 respectively).....No problems were had by any & today they all enjoy diving ALOT....The middle one is an instructor with well over 5k dives...I would not hesitate to do it all over again---the same way.......Hope this little info will help you out a bit......good luck to you & your daughter, things will go just fine I bet....

 

[jtpwils]

initiating thread

Without knowing the details (and we likely never will), your question is impossible to answer.

Fair enough - then let's go with the hypothetical that an instructor and training diver are 15-20 feet below surface and the diver panicks and heads for the surface. Would the best thing be for the instructor to already have hold of the trainees equipment preventing them from ascending? Be alert and try to grab them and prevent ascension? Or let them go and hope they remember to exhale on the way up?

 

[jtpwils]

Let me give you our(past) experiences...Wife & I have 3 children, all adults now....The oldest certified @ age 14 with my wife & I in 1985, the other 2 @ age 12 each on or about their 12th birthdays(1989 & 1993 respectively).....No problems were had by any & today they all enjoy diving ALOT....The middle one is an instructor with well over 5k dives...I would not hesitate to do it all over again---the same way.......Hope this little info will help you out a bit......good luck to you & your daughter, things will go just fine I bet....

Thanks - "I bet" they will too, and I'm not a betting man.
Let me put it this way. I am very, very confident that things will be fine; I'm not given to panic or worry very much myself but I'm just wondering if there is something that I should be prepared to do, or remind the instructor about. And I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's doing or that I expect to know more.

I'm an EMT as a volunteer, and whenever we're on our way to a "real" emergency, we talk over our protocols, planned actions enroute. It doesn't mean we were not prepared or properly trained before, just that we're bringing past training to the forefront of our minds - gettng our gameface on so to speak.

 

[meierdierck]

same as others. if you dont tell us what incident we cant comment...
but you should know that while isolated incidents get alot of media play, they are few and far between,
the safety record of this sport is amazing, with redundancy in gear training, supervision, and computers, most incidents these days are either diver error, lack of training, or most importantly diver conditioning....
and the post incident help available these days is also unbelievable, you should know that there is a chamber on the island in cozumel, they were recently featured in Undersea Journal, and have been acknowledged for their outstanding commitment to diver safety.
I am not sure what the fear of lung expansion injury exactly is you refer to, but it is easily avoided by not holding your breath and not diving while congested,
I hope this helps,a nd I am sure your scuba instructor will be able to elaborate and expand on some of these issue
I have two 12 year old girls and a 10 yr old learning right now, and I understand how hard it is to put them into "dangerous"activities, but I think with a little more research and education you will see the benefits and amazing things you will get to show her is well worth the risk, I hope this helps.. good luck & dont give up yet...

 

[meierdierck]

Thanks - "I bet" they will too, and I'm not a betting man.
Let me put it this way. I am very, very confident that things will be fine; I'm not given to panic or worry very much myself but I'm just wondering if there is something that I should be prepared to do, or remind the instructor about. And I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's doing or that I expect to know more.

I'm an EMT as a volunteer, and whenever we're on our way to a "real" emergency, we talk over our protocols, planned actions enroute. It doesn't mean we were not prepared or properly trained before, just that we're bringing past training to the forefront of our minds - gettng our gameface on so to speak.

the best thing to do is let the instructor run his class, he is trainded to handle this, and will not let your daughter into a situation he has not preparred her for,
I also think the best thing to do after the class is to just go diving, start at a local spot and ease yourselves deeper and deeper until you are both comfortable, I think you will find that the kids actually take to the sport better than most adults, and my experience is that they,
I also have worked in EMS, I understand where you are coming from,
the game face you need to project to her is one of confidence, in her and yourself, and address concerns in a positive, constructive manner, holding onto her will not help her, practice and patience will, let her learn it for herself and believe me, she will be teachin g you some tricks before you know it

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

....
I know that suba is an inherently risky acitivity and this has all been discussed very much with my daughter, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that this tragedy hasn't had me re-evaluating the decision to have her train with me.

Thanks,
Jim

This is not a specific responce to the incident you mention (but I'll get to that), this is about parents diving with their kids.

As a parent who dives with his wife and 3 kids (the youngest, my son, turned 11 during his OW course), let me offer some things I've observed diving with my own family:

1.) Kids can be terrific divers. They don't bring all the "baggage" to the table that we adults do. They can often master basic dive skills as fast (or faster!) than adults.
2.) Maturity is a much bigger factor than chronologic age in my opinion. As a parent, you'll (hopefully) know your childs maturity level better than anyone else. Will they listen to an authority figure (the instructor), follow directions, and do they have the situational awareness needed to dive safely?
3.) Pick your instructor carefully! Ask if he/she has taught many young divers before.... do they have kids of their own (not a really big deal if they don't, but I do think it helps).

After you are both certified, some things to consider:

When you dive with your daughter, there should be an experienced adult diving with you. This is not so much for your daughter's safety, but for yours. If you have an emergency in the water, your child may not be able to help you. You are essentially a "solo" diver when diving with your child, much like an instructor is "solo" when taking a student on a dive. But as a new diver, you do not have the experience level and problem solving ability (yet) that an instructor does.

You will also need to be very honest with yourself about your own abilities. Being the dive buddy for a child goes beyond the duties of being the dive buddy for an adult, and your own skill should match that increased level of care.

I already had about 700 dives before I began diving with my kids. I will not take my kids diving unless my wife (who has around 200 dives) is along on the dive.

Now to the incident: If it was a lung-expansion injury, that is entirely preventable with a good instructor and good class. If you follow the instructors directions in class and in the water, no problems.

Having said all that, diving with your daughter will be wonderful experience that you'll both treasure for the rest of your life. Go for it!

Best wishes.

 

[TheScubaBOB]

I'm just wondering if there is something that I should be prepared to do, or remind the instructor about. And I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's doing or that I expect to know more

Remember that you are a student in the class also and you don't know squat about Scuba Training.

If you can't do that then maybe you & your daughter shouldn't get certified together. If you're just worrying about her then you'll interfere with her training and miss a lot of your training.

When my wife was certified on our Honeymoon the instructor reluctantly let me "accompany" her on her training dives. It was at times difficult to just keep my distance as this is the woman I Love and I wanted to be sure she was as safe as possible.

To keep myself occupied I just took my AOW at the same time and I was able to be near her doing my own stuff except for the two training dives I did to 90 & 106 ft.