Tourist dies in New Caledonia during a "Discovery Scuba" dive

[Geoff_H]

I would be very leery to suggest a DSD outside of the US without a lot of research, but they are usually done as a spur of the moment decision - so generally, I'd say don't do them.

There are plenty of safe, well run dive resorts outside of the US where you can learn to dive and have fun safely. You only have to do the same amount of research on them as you want any US-based operation.

Now, if you had said "don't learn to dive on a program from any US-based agency, use BSAC or CMAS training programs" then maybe we could be getting somewhere.

 

[DandyDon]

There are plenty of safe, well run dive resorts outside of the US where you can learn to dive and have fun safely. You only have to do the same amount of research on them as you want any US-based operation.

Now, if you had said "don't learn to dive on a program from any US-based agency, use BSAC or CMAS training programs" then maybe we could be getting somewhere.

I'm sure that's true - but people generally do not check.

I don't know anything about the other agencies...

 

[String]

String do you teach your students to dive with no ditchable weights?

Standards say i have to teach ditchable weights. I do however tell them that i dont like using them and highlight its their own choice what they do once qualified.

I know how you feel about your own; what if you're disabled or unconscious....?

Well im not overweighted so a simply controlled buoyant lift to the surface will suffice. As opposed to ditching weights, turning me into a missile and bending and/or embolising on the way up.

In general, many bodies are found with weights not-ditched.

Meaningless statistic. The key is how many of those incidents would have been stopped by ditchable weight. And the opposite - how many incidents have happened due to weights accidentally ditching ?

 

[NudeDiver]

Meaningless statistic. The key is how many of those incidents would have been stopped by ditchable weight. And the opposite - how many incidents have happened due to weights accidentally ditching ?

It depends on how you're looking at it. One way to look at it is that if 85% of dead divers are found with their weights, that means that when push comes to shove, a lot of people are not following their training. If people are not following their training, it COULD mean that:

a). The training is ineffective (i.e. people don't remember it when they need to)
b). The item of training (ditch your weights) is faulty (i.e. the technique doesn't work)
c). People need to refresh their training regularly
d). Something else

I think the fact that so many people are trained to ditch their weights in an emergency and yet, so many people die with their weights on, is a phenomena worth examining - and that by doing so, training or diving practices might be successfully altered in a fashion that results in less diver deaths. But we won't really know without the examination.

 

[DandyDon]

Weights are to be ditched for surface emergencies, not emergencies at depth. I know you don't like the idea of ditching them to float higher during a search String, but the searchers do, if you ask them. Also notice Dive Training magazine mentioned that again this month.

 

[String]

I know you don't like the idea of ditching them to float higher during a search String, but the searchers do, if you ask them.

Lets see the properly reviewed papers showing it has an effect then. Somehow i doubt a maximum of 2 inches is going to have the slightest difference on being spotted.

The large orange DSMB, torch, flag, strobe, mirror, whistle all are far saner and more effective methods.

FWIW my weights can be removed at the surface (at least some of them). Given 100% of dives here are RIB based you need to pass your kit up and nobody is going to lift a full set of kit with full weights sensibly onboard in rough weather.
My view still is that weights that can ditch underwater are dangerous.

 

[DandyDon]

Lets see the properly reviewed papers showing it has an effect then. Somehow i doubt a maximum of 2 inches is going to have the slightest difference on being spotted.

The large orange DSMB, torch, flag, strobe, mirror, whistle all are far saner and more effective methods.

FWIW my weights can be removed at the surface (at least some of them). Given 100% of dives here are RIB based you need to pass your kit up and nobody is going to lift a full set of kit with full weights sensibly onboard in rough weather.
My view still is that weights that can ditch underwater are dangerous.

Well, I guess we're closer to agreeing then.

 

[stbrnd]

Here is another DSD experience. My wife and I went to Cancun a few years back and saw a brochure for discover scuba. I have been certified for a long time, but wanted to see my wife get into it, so I cautiously went along with what I felt was a very short course. To make her more confortable, I took the "course" with her. Everything was ok in the pool session, but then came the OW boat dive. They had everyone in full gear before we got to the site. My wife had her own "guide" and I was to tag along as a third. The seas were choppy from the start, but this was never discussed. Neither was there any briefing on boat entry or exit. 6-8 ft seas meant the guides simply pushed the student in the water. After a surge filled 20'ft max dive, with no vis and no live coral, etc, we now had to somehow get back on the boat with a ladder that came out of the water about 3', and then plunged back in. Both of us ended up bruised, battered, and discouraged. It took more than 5 years to get my wife back into scuba. We did the local course, went to Grand Cayman and did her referral and now she is a Master Diver. I still shudder to think of all the possible horrors that could have easily happened on that day in Cancun.

 

[alpanian]

I have to credit DSD for convincing my girlfriend to become an avid diver and now my buddy. I'd been diving for a couple years already.

She did her DSD in the Maldives. She had to watch about 1.5 hrs of the PADI dvd's (mainly the safety ones), then she was into the shallow lagoon with the instructor testing the equipment and breathing underwater (this was 1 on 1). In the afternoon I joined them on the actual dive, which was on the house reef at 6m for about 30 min. The instructor gave her full attention and she was very comfortable. For her, the experience was magical!

I find this initial introduction great when done properly, but it is the next part I am less convinced of. In my opinion, this scuba teaser should be the end of DSD. You want to continue? Then you begin certification!

I am not sure how it works in other parts of the world. In the maldives, if you do a DSD course with a resort, you then get to dive as often as you want with this resort during your holidays. So I took her on 1 boat dive. Well let me tell you that being on a boat full of experienced divers readying their gear is already quite stressfull to see when you have never even setup your own gear! She was going to be diving with two other DSD's and 1 instructor. That's when I decided I was going to be her buddy rather than go on a dive with one of the other groups. At Least I could keep a close eye on her.

To top it off, we did a 12 meter drift dive along a reef wall. I mean serious drifting! To make it short, everything turned out great... on this occasion. But we decided that was the end of her DSD experience. The next dive would be on an OW course!

My point is that when done properly, that initial DSD teaser is a great way to see if it's something you'd like to invest time and money in. The fact that you are then allowed to dive with that resort as much as you want during the remainder of your holiday (at a premium price compared to certified divers) is nothing but greedy money making, and in my opinion a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[harmony]

I would just like to place a few comments on this tragique accident where a Japanese tourist died. His poor wife was in the water at the same time and was taken to hospital in extreme shock. This incident is once again in the local papers as Raoul Monthouel was judged for manslaughter on December 31st. The court has asked for a sentence of 18 months in prison and for Raoul Monthouel to be banned from working in the dive industry. We will know the outcome on the 2nd of March. There are a few comments that I would like to make regarding this incident. Firstly, the diver was not participating in a PADI DSD course. It was a one off dive where the diver should never have been out of the hands of an instructor. There was no prior training at all. For information, Monthouel was expelled permanently from PADI many years ago. He is also running a dive centre without the necessary qualifications and authorisations. The instructor was a young japanese woman who was working illegally with a tourist visa. She had not worked in the industry for several years. The victim was completely out of air and the tank was out of test with approximately 1 cup of oil inside (possibly a bad filter on the compressor). The BCD was in poor condition with a serious air leak. He was wearing an 8kg weight belt with a 10 liter steel tank. His wife had also run out of air and apparently the instructor had trouble trying to handle the both of them. It was her fifth dive that day and she was tired. The conditions were not good with poor visibility and heavy chop due to a strong wind. He simply sunk and drowned as he didn't know how to dump his weight belt. His lungs were full of water. Most of this information has been published in the newspapers. What is really amazing is the fact that Monthouel continues to work as though nothing has happened. It was his third serious accident with Japanese tourists in the past 2 years. Stories like this are really quite scary and very bad for the industry!