Tough love for the industry's lithium addiction

[Texas Torpedo]

Anybody comment on can (canister) lights and their Lipo batteries?

I have a 35W HID canister light that came with a LiPo, and with passive balancing. It was incredibly bright but the battery was a real PITA and had to be replaced. I suspect another can light I have also has a LiPo in it but I have never needed to open it up, so I can't say for sure. I'm not sure what the industry standard is now days. They were circa 2012'ish.

 

[JohnnyC]

Anybody comment on can (canister) lights and their Lipo batteries?

What commentary would you like? I have an UWLD with the biggest battery allowable by law on an airplane. I don't worry about it because Bobby is a smart guy who has done a great job engineering that thing, and it's sealed anyway so nothing I can really do about it. It comes with what appears to be a pretty smart charger as far as those things go. I've got a Halcyon Focus 2.0 that has a battery charger that I'm slightly wary of, but it's how you charge the damn thing so it is what it is.

I also have some other NiMH batteries that I have for other lights that I can travel with as well, mainly HID's. They're cheap enough and plentiful enough through Battery Space that if I know I'm not doing "big" dives when I travel, I'll take those just as one more form of risk reduction.

I have a Light Monkey handheld that has a sealed battery compartment with Samsung 30Q's or something in it. I haven't opened it up for a while to check, but I feel like they were 30Q's. Anyway, that came with the same type of charger that Battery Space recommends for charging, so I trust it as much as I can trust anything that can go boom for seemingly no reason.

In the end, it's just a little prudence. I don't leave them connected when not in use, I don't charge them when I'm not home, I charge them in a place where nothing is gonna burn, and I hope for the best. At some point no matter what you do there will be a non-zero sum of battery accidents in the world. All you can really do is hedge your bets against one of those accidents causing catastrophic damage in the event that it's YOUR battery accident that day.

 

[lexvil]

I'll drop this again, but in here. This is basically a DPV battery, except it had more smarts to it, like NASA smarts. And it still blew up. And observe how hard it is to actually get the fire out. Wait, they never did get it out.....

If it's a true lithium battery you need a Class D extinguisher. Unlikely, but at least one dive computer went pop when someone tried to charge a Saft 14500.

Hence, throw the f*cker overboard. Make sure if it's gonna go all Great White, it can only do it in a space that isn't likely to catch fire, and can be easily thrown overboard.

Damn!!!

 

[Dirty Mac]

Why is that minimum so surprising? 1) its a minimum 2) interconnected smoke detectors were not common or not available when the boat was built 3) how many people have a smoke detector in every room of their house?

I don't know. It just surprised me. A lot of things are surprising me on this tragedy with regards to CG minimums. In my house, I have 3 smoke alarms strategically distributed. They are all powered off house power and each has battery backup, and they are all wired together. If one goes off....they all go off. Because if they didn't, there is no way I would hear the basement alarm go off, while I was sleeping 2 floors above.

 

[2airishuman]

I have a handful of 18650s that I use for dive lights and a USB phone charger.

I get the cells from IMR Batteries. I use a good charger. Generally I charge batteries during the day. In most cases I put the charger in a large cast iron frying pan in the kitchen, which I believe is sufficient to limit any fire that might occur to the batteries and the charger. I'm still thinking through whether that's good enough and whether I want to keep them.

The problem on these liveaboards is twofold. First of all, you don't know what the other guy is doing. People have all kinds of attitudes and there is simply no way of knowing whether the next guy bought the cheapest 18650s and chargers on alibaba.com, dropped them, etc. On boats with electric outlets in the bunk area you don't know whether the next guy has a battery charger under his mattress or whatever.

Second of all, in most cases, you have all this battery charging taking place on a crowded table where a thermal runaway on one cell can ignite everyone else's chargers, packs, etc., even if well designed.

 

[Dirty Mac]

I have a handful of 18650s that I use for dive lights and a USB phone charger.

I get the cells from IMR Batteries. I use a good charger. Generally I charge batteries during the day. In most cases I put the charger in a large cast iron frying pan in the kitchen, which I believe is sufficient to limit any fire that might occur to the batteries and the charger. I'm still thinking through whether that's good enough and whether I want to keep them.

The problem on these liveaboards is twofold. First of all, you don't know what the other guy is doing. People have all kinds of attitudes and there is simply no way of knowing whether the next guy bought the cheapest 18650s and chargers on alibaba.com, dropped them, etc. On boats with electric outlets in the bunk area you don't know whether the next guy has a battery charger under his mattress or whatever.

Second of all, in most cases, you have all this battery charging taking place on a crowded table where a thermal runaway on one cell can ignite everyone else's chargers, packs, etc., even if well designed.

Well, I know that I will be reexamining my own practices in this area. I think my own thinking and practices on this subject has been a bit on the lax side.

 

[fmerkel]

This is a conundrum:
Obviously a fair number of people on this thread and in this forum are concerned, and are actively trying to get information, figure out "best practices", and be safe.
This active group is a drop in the bucket of divers.
Divers are a drop in the ocean of active battery users.

The lithium cat is out of the bag. My car (Nissan Leaf) has 600#+ of lithium that I'm sitting on. Works great, I love it. I also belong to multiple EV and PHEV forums ( I have a Prius also). Same issue there, a good number of contentious folks trying to learn and help. And it's obvious that there are hoards of owners that learn ONLY enough to get themselves by and are not the least bit interested in knowing more.

How do we as a society actually deal with this?
Require education? Hell, this is America, home of the free and (some of) the privileged. You can buy a gun damn near anywhere, any tme and you don't have to know squat. You can't make anyone do anything. That would be .......gasp- socialism/tyranny....gasp, and the populace might have to turn off the TV, put down People magazine, and use their phones/computers for an education.

Guess what, ain't going to happen. The ignorance and stupidity of the other guy can kill you. Damned I know what to do about that other than try to avoid them.

 

[tarponchik]

As for me, I won't be reexamining anything. The only LIBs I have are in my laptop, in my iPhone, and in my Sony A6000. I consider all of these safe.

 

[Joe Baumeli]

• DO NOT charge rechargeable alkaline batteries while they are still in the flashlight. Charging the alkaline batteries while they are still in the flashlight can cause internal gas or heat generation resulting in venting, explosion or possibly fire which could cause serious injury or property damage.

 

[tursiops]

From a popular maker of underwater flashlights

• DO NOT charge rechargeable alkaline batteries while they are still in the flashlight. Charging the alkaline batteries while they are still in the flashlight can cause internal gas or heat generation resulting in venting, explosion or possibly fire which could cause serious injury or property damage.

• DO NOT charge rechargeable alkaline batteries while they are still in the flashlight. Charging the alkaline batteries while they are still in the flashlight can cause internal gas or heat generation resulting in venting, explosion or possibly fire which could cause serious injury or property damage.

Are there ANY flashlights using rechargeable alkalines that are even capable of being charged without removing the batteries? I know of only lithium batteries in closed, charge-in-the-flashlight, lights.