Tough love for the industry's lithium addiction

[MichaelMc]

Does anyone have suggestions for a budget 18650 charger that is considered safe?

I have used this as a one cell in my bag option that is not much bigger than the battery. Runs off micro usb so can use off laptop, car or wall. $6. It has a small charge level meter, temp monitoring, and (of course) auto cutoff. They have two cells versions also.
Xtar ANT MC1 Plus Portable Li-Ion Battery Charger 2016 Version

It was mentioned here: Where to buy an 18650 battery on the island? Which has info on multi cell chargers.

 

[johndiver999]

Could a metal charging box be designed that includes a somewhat enclosed design that incorporates an internal heat sensor and smoke sensor? If it was a stand alone design, you could have the sensor(s) trip an alarm AND automatically trip a breaker so that all charging stops. Would something like that work?

Obviously this would be expensive, maybe worth it for a large boat and may not accommodate large scooter batteries etc.

Is something like that even practical? Is the basic premise that, enough smoke/heat are generated to allow detection before an intense fire actually breaks out -- a reasonable assumption?

 

[JohnnyC]

Could a metal charging box be designed that includes a somewhat enclosed design that incorporates an internal heat sensor and smoke sensor? If it was a stand alone design, you could have the sensor(s) trip an alarm AND automatically trip a breaker so that all charging stops. Would something like that work?

Obviously this would be expensive, maybe worth it for a large boat and may not accommodate large scooter batteries etc.

Is something like that even practical? Is the basic premise that, enough smoke/heat are generated to allow detection before an intense fire actually breaks out -- a reasonable assumption?

Wouldn't even be that expensive. You could do the whole thing with an arduino. I think more importantly is the ability to dump the thing overboard. If you get a thermal runaway, you're not putting it out. And thermal runaway can go from zero to Chernobyl REALLY fast. Like REALLY REALLY fast. Doesn't matter if it cuts the supply or blares like an air raid siren, once it torches off, the only thing to do when it's on a boat is get it off the boat.

 

[Popgun Pete]

I think jettisoning is the only recourse with a centralized charging facility controlled by the crew and if a failure is in progress then over the side it goes. Have all gear brought on board inspected for the presence of clones and counterfeit units, have a list of allowable gear that has approvals and weed out the more questionable stuff. Better to get rid of the suspect gear than risk everyone's life. If needs be then only certified gear gets brought on board and the certifier bears the responsibility if he/she lets through a dud. The ABYC have been developing a lithium-ion standard, but it needs to be finalized as soon as possible as technology is racing ahead, as is the production of quality units and in its wake, “look-alike” junk.

 

[Brian G]

Have all gear brought on board inspected for the presence of clones and counterfeit units

There is no quick way to do this by inspection. Counterfeit units look identical to legit units. The only way to verify authenticity is to do electrical testing of the battery, and even then there is still a chance that you have a reject cell that was supposed to be destroyed.

 

[KevinNM]

We are talking about Li-ion batteries, because nobody uses the old non-rechargeable "lithium" cells for diving.

Well, I have disposables that say lithium in my Shearwater.

 

[KevinNM]

There has been a lot of talk about a potential bad battery or charger, has the sheer volume of devices been discussed? What is the best way to handle charging over 100+ devices concurrently?

A stainless steel table with a reasonably water resistant stainless steel cover placed outside, with nothing but air over it. With some appropriate engineering so the table legs won't melt thru the deck or the table melt or fail if you get the entire set igniting. And a smoke and heat detector that will turn off the breakers if tripped.

 

[NAM001]

Lithium batteries also show a fairly steep output dropoff when nearly discharged. Alkaline batteries (and the similar carbon-zinc chemistry that predated them) are the only one where there is a significant variation in voltage between, say, 75% soc and 25% soc.



Modern, high-quality NiMH cells (notably the Panasonic Eneloop ones but also other brands) have lower self-discharge than alkaline. They are also less likely to leak. They deliver more power (watts at once) then alkaline, but somewhat less energy (total watt-hours) at least for low-drain applications (particularly things like clocks and smoke detectors that are always on and run for a year). For dive lights that discharge the battery over the course of an hour or two, I can't imagine any benefit to alkaline over NiMH.

The advantage is that you can see the effects of a alkaline battery starting to run lo and you can swotch to a lower power setting. the rechargables mentioned run bright and then go dim very quickly so there is no warning to switch to a lower power consumption brightness to insure you dont go dark before getting out of the cave and into a cavern area.

Another advantage is that if oyuo have a intelligent device that runs on alkaline 1.5 vdc adn you use a Ni Mh you almost imediately show a low battery condition because it starts out at 1.2 volts. Also if the lights are say led's they are designed to run on a set voltage for max output so if it is made to run on 1.5 v and you use other than an alkaline batter the light is dim form the get go. and of course teh reverse is true if designed to put out max on a Nimnh of 1.2 V and you put in a alkaline you fry the light or device from over voltage is the power is not regulated back to 1.2

 

[NAM001]

Does anyone have suggestions for a budget 18650 charger that is considered safe?

I have a single battery charger with no features and I am unsure if it is considered safe. It came included with my hog morph 1000 backup light.

they are all over the place. I think the real question regards the rate of charging. certainly it would make sense that a high charge rate is not as saf as a slower one. I would think you should consult the battery maker for that info and find a charger to match.

 

[NAM001]

I would think that concerns regarding safe Li on batteries should be handled by having all battery equipment be located at a prescribed location. some boats have a tub for camera's and a bench for charging. all charging is done at that location which is in the open adn as result well ventilated and open for anyone to see any questionable byproduct from charging.