Too soon for a PADI Wreck Specialty?

[yyidus]

Ermm.
PADI and SSI wreck diving is not actually proper penetration diving. They will teach you some skills relevant to penetration (following a line mostly). However, the only thing you're really taught in a wreck diving course is "do not enter the wreck -- here are some things that could go wrong".

On 20 dives, I would not do a 'real penetration'. Otoh, I'm not familiar with the wreck you're planning on diving. If it's basically an "enter through one window and out through the other side" where you can always see the exit... Go for it IF you feel comfortable. Just keep in mind you could kick up some silt and totally destroy visibility for a few minutes. Calm down and wait.

Anything more serious/techie, and I would say DO NOT. You will want to bring more air (two tanks). You will want to get incredibly comfortable with backtracking in total darkness.. etc... It's just not worth it. There's plenty of the wreck to see from the outside.

 

[Buoyant1]

I'm not an instructor or agency rep..but I HAVE taken PADI's wreck course.

PADI's course has a simple penetration, according to my "home" instructor you're not to go more than 130 linear feet from the surface (if the wreck is 100 ft, you can't go more than 30 feet inside it) It's mainly about evaluating a penetration, never leaving the light zone, and using a reel.

My 4th dive was on the Thunderbolt in Marathon, FL we dropped into the hold, went in about 25 -30 feet using a reel, there was a large hole at the end of our penetration that we could have exited through, but the excersize was to turn and follow the line out with my eyes closed to simulate a silt out. Nothing to worry about as far as getting lost within a wreck. The primary lesson learned is to evaluate before you penetrate, and the caveat is light zones, and exit points, not deep penetrations (i.e. down staircases, through cooridors, etc.)

And yes, there IS an option to not penetrate. It's not a whole big deal, I say if you're comfy, go for it!

 

[BarryNL]

Ok, just to clarify, here is the PADI Instructor Manuals standard:

Penetration-training dives are to be limited to within the light zone and within 40 metres/130 feet from the surface, vertical and horizontal distance included. No out-of-air drills are to be practiced in the overhead environment. After the training dives, student divers are required to log their dives in their personal log books.

Training dives that do not include wreck penetration may be conducted at night for divers who have completed the Night Adventure Dive or the first dive of the PADI Night Diver specialty course, or have qualifying night diving experience. If the wreck used for training is located in deep water (over 18 metres/60 feet), the Deep Diver rating is recommended as a prerequisite for the Wreck Diver course.

 

[philmayer]

I didn't think the PADI wreck specialty included penetration . . . but it sounds like it does?

Penetration is permitted (within the guidelines), but not required. My wreck class didn't include it. It was more focused on understanding the safety issues and pointing out that you shouldn't be doing anything more than basic penetration without MUCH more training.

 

[bigvivec]

First, not sure if this is the appropriate forum, so please excuse me if it is not.

My wife is getting her AOW this weekend and just got her OW in Early April. We also had signed up for a wreck dive in NC (USS Indra) in July and part of that includes getting PADI Wreck Specialty.

Is it too soon for her to start doing penetrations and diving in overhead environments?

I'll be with her, and the instructors that we deal with are great and I have no worries, which I guess is why I'm not as nervous for her, but I'm not sure if she knows what to expect.

Appreciate opinions and suggestions.

It is an insane idea...

Thing about overhead environments and diving in general is that often times it can be relatively a benign experience...training exists to provide a framework of what to do when things get hairy...20 dives is barely enough to contol your breathing if you get a little panicked, and definetly not enough to be consistent on air consumption, have solid bouyancy contol (controlled by breathing and not so much by the bc) and trim control, or any of a number of things that you ought ot know before putting yourself into a life threatening situation which is exactly what penetration diving is...how is her composure if she were to lose her mask? A fin? Rip a hole in her BC?

Not a good idea...

 

[ArcticDiver]

As has been posted the PADI Wreck Specialty has a lot of flexibility. It can be a pretty good course. When I did it we spent a lot of time in the overhead actually exploring, what to us, was new territory. On another class the same instructor accomodated student anxieties and they never penetrated at all. We both have the same card but vastly diffferent skill sets.

How soon to take a course is really up to the student and the instructor. You are posting for someone else. I wonder if that person has the same anxiety you seem to have? In any case if there is any question talk it over. Depending on the circumstances I've known new OW divers to start doing 50' or so swim throughs starting around dive 10. But, the key is a frank discussion between the prospective student and the prospective instructor.

I would give two cautions. First, try to use an instructor who has actually done actual wreck work on real wrecks. I did and never regreted it. Second, if the student doesn't have enough self-discipline to not push the envelope beyond their training and comfort level they should not take the course.

Of course, although it is seldom mentioned, completing a course once doesn't mean the student can't go back and take it again, or multiple times. In fact, it is a good idea to retake a skills course every so often.

 

[GrlEEEgrl]

First, not sure if this is the appropriate forum, so please excuse me if it is not.

My wife is getting her AOW this weekend and just got her OW in Early April. We also had signed up for a wreck dive in NC (USS Indra) in July and part of that includes getting PADI Wreck Specialty.

Is it too soon for her to start doing penetrations and diving in overhead environments?

I'll be with her, and the instructors that we deal with are great and I have no worries, which I guess is why I'm not as nervous for her, but I'm not sure if she knows what to expect.

Appreciate opinions and suggestions.

Dear sub_diving_mason,

It is very sweet of you to be looking after your wife, but I assure you, she is comfortable and very much looking forward to the wreck dive.

Love, your wife

On a side note - for those that have voiced concerns - this is a PADI wreck specialty class - we are not talking about a serious tech experience here. We will be with several instructors and will likely not do this on our own, even with the specialty, without me logging many many more dives.

 

[Web Monkey]

Dear sub_diving_mason,

It is very sweet of you to be looking after your wife, but I assure you, she is comfortable and very much looking forward to the wreck dive.

Love, your wife

On a side note - for those that have voiced concerns - this is a PADI wreck specialty class - we are not talking about a serious tech experience here. We will be with several instructors and will likely not do this on our own, even with the specialty, without me logging many many more dives.

FWIW, "comfort" has very little to do with it. People that die in car crashes are comfortable until they hit something.

I have around 500 dives, and the only wrecks I'll enter are steel with huge gaping holes where truck-sized doors were cut off, and wooden wrecks where enough wood is missing that the outside is accessible from almost anywhere. And only with a buddy I've been diving with for years. We have instructors with literally thousands of dives that also won't do significant wreck penetrations, including the instructors that teach the Wreck class.

I would recommend that you not penetrate any wrecks or enter any overhead environment until you have a lot more dives and get actual penetration training from a technical diving agency.

The big "take away" from the PADI Wreck class should be "don't go inside the wreck".

Wrecks are perfectly safe until they aren't. A single bad kick from you or anybody else can change bathtub-clear water into chocolate milk, and make your exit vanish like it was never there. A loss of buoyancy control can find you plastered to the ceiling, jabbed with jagged metal or tangled in stuff you can't cut, a wrong turn can leave you in a room with a direct view of the open water, through a porthole that you don't fit though. A little inattention and separation can lead you into places you shouldn't go, looking for a lost buddy who is in reality, back on the boat.

Wrecks are really cool, and you should take the class, but I would recommend that you enjoy them from the outside for now.

Terry

 

[pir8]

Dear sub_diving_mason,

It is very sweet of you to be looking after your wife, but I assure you, she is comfortable and very much looking forward to the wreck dive.

Love, your wife

On a side note - for those that have voiced concerns - this is a PADI wreck specialty class - we are not talking about a serious tech experience here. We will be with several instructors and will likely not do this on our own, even with the specialty, without me logging many many more dives.

Congratulations on your decision to continue your diving education. Keep it in perspective and dive within your limits.

 

[GrlEEEgrl]

Congratulations on your decision to continue your diving education. Keep it in perspective and dive within your limits.

Thank you pir8.

One thing I am great at is knowing my limits - in fact I have been accused of not taking enough risks (I disagree). The dive shop we use for instruction has gone above and beyond to ensure safety throughout my training and I feel very comfortable with the minimal penetration (based on PADI guidelines) we will do during this class. We will not be in a situation where we will penetrate anything outside of a "class envirmonment" for a very long time. The class is a great way for us to be reminded of how important it is to stay out of wrecks outside of this more controlled situation. If the instructors (or I) don't feel the penetration is something I am ready for, I have great confidence that they will choose the alternate dive for the 4th and not penetrate. Also, they have left the option open for anyone in the class to do only the adventure dive and not complete the rest of the class if either they or the intructors feel that is the way to go. Until that time, I will continue to practice my skills each weekend, as we have been doing, to ensure I am as ready as possible.