Toby

[Spectre]

seahunter once bubbled...
The octopus has made the share air exercise a lot safer and the emergency more manageable but still to be avoided at all costs. In less than 30', in an out-of-air emergency you should go up. I assume you've been trained to make a controlled emergency ascent! You'll be safely at the surface before you'd even find your buddy and secure the octopus in most cases.

My apologies DD. I took your comments and read Alec's posts again and found the above gem.

Flame on.

 

[detroit diver]

No apologies necessary!!

 

[jbd]

has a valid point and his supporting information is a sad commentary on the state of dive training over the past 15 to 20 years.

Seahunter commented about his training with the buddy breathing which is far more than is taught by most agencies. If you will consider that most new divers are not taught buddy breathing then you will realize that the scenario is as seahunter says according to dive accident reports. One diver gets into trouble, the buddy comes to the rescue, and lo and behold neither diver knows what to do and the end result is that both divers die--bottom line IMHO--low quality, poor and insufficient training.

I also agree with seahunter that a CESA may well be the most logical choice especially on low viz shallow dives. Every diver, again IMHO, should have the practiced ability to perform a CESA.

I would hope that seahunter would share air via octo or buddy breathing with his regular dive buddy. There is no excuse for regular buddy's not to practice this stuff.

 

[GTADiver]

Now we all know the standards have dropped so much with the agencies over the years that it is now possible to certify divers in a weekend. Something has to be sacrificed (not the buddy but in what is taught).

All kidding aside, a buddy is a redundant air supply and that is why we (with a few exceptions) are tought to dive with a buddy.

 

[detroit diver]

The sad commentary is his, and your, attitude that "every man for himself".

Statistics are BS when it comes to trying to help someone out.

Where do you draw the line, JBD? Do you let the OOA diver go at 30 feet? How about 50 feet? What if he/she is not OOA and they have a medical problem? What depth do you watch them suffer at?

You folks are sick.

jbd once bubbled...
has a valid point and his supporting information is a sad commentary on the state of dive training over the past 15 to 20 years.

Seahunter commented about his training with the buddy breathing which is far more than is taught by most agencies. If you will consider that most new divers are not taught buddy breathing then you will realize that the scenario is as seahunter says according to dive accident reports. One diver gets into trouble, the buddy comes to the rescue, and lo and behold neither diver knows what to do and the end result is that both divers die--bottom line IMHO--low quality, poor and insufficient training.

I also agree with seahunter that a CESA may well be the most logical choice especially on low viz shallow dives. Every diver, again IMHO, should have the practiced ability to perform a CESA.

I would hope that seahunter would share air via octo or buddy breathing with his regular dive buddy. There is no excuse for regular buddy's not to practice this stuff.

 

[GTADiver]

detroit diver once bubbled...
Where do you draw the line, JBD? Do you let the OOA diver go at 30 feet? How about 50 feet? What if he/she is not OOA and they have a medical problem? What depth do you watch them suffer at?

You folks are sick.

Reminds me of the movie Back Draft when they say "You go, I go".

DD I agree with you completely. At the shallower depths the likeliehood of an embolism is not reduced and one should not plan on doing an emergency swimming assent if something goes wrong....they should plan on getting air from that dive buddy that is within touching distance.

 

[Chet]

I think this whole subject is out there. First, this idea of buddy breathing-alternate-CESA are all options that are encountered when the diver *****-up. That is the fact. An out of air position as a diver should never happen if the diver was taught properly in the first place (meaning their atittude in the water column). A new diver should be taught that an out of air experience is not an option. With proper air management this does not happen. The only reason to teach people alternate air source is for the other people you will be diving with. Meaning the were not taught like you were. As for CESA, it is dangerous. It should be mentioned and thats it. Buddy beathing is a skill that is part of the past and the people that teach it and practice it are in the past too. With pony bottles and and back-ups and spare air(thats another issue) etc....... to buddy breath is not part of the equation.
Chet

 

[Ontario Diver]

As much as I agree with much of what you say... I believe that Murphy is always the third diving buddy......

In my opinion Sharing air is a critical skill that all divers should be prepared to do at any depth and at any time - regardless of equipment carried.

 

[Groundhog246]

Chet once bubbled...
First, this idea of buddy breathing-alternate-CESA are all options that are encountered when the diver *****-up. That is the fact. An out of air position as a diver should never happen if the diver was taught properly in the first place (meaning their atittude in the water column). Chet

I take it from this response you've never suffered or had a buddy suffer a free-flow. I've been fortunate so far to have only been involved with one. It was early in the dive (8 minutes/50 feet) so we had time to do a 30fpm ascent with my buddy breathing on his free flowing reg. He surfaced with about 200PSI left and we managed to turn off the air before zero, thus avoiding a tank vis. Because we were only 8 minutes into the dive we did not do a safety stop, which would have required sharing air. If we had been later in the dive, with less than 2500 PSI in his tank, he would not have had enough air to spend 2 minutes on ascent and with 40 or more minute bottom time, I would not have been comfortable blowing the safety stop. Aside from the fact we don't carry pony bottles, I fail to see where he *****d-up.

Generally speaking, I dive with people I like, so if they were to need air, I'd share.

 

[cat]

heck, in the "pick a buddy" check.

"If I run out are you going to share air? Or are you going to watch me shoot for the surface and lecture me afterwards (assuming there is an afterwards) on why I should have *known* my reg was going to freeze or that o-ring was going to burst or my hose was going to break or... or."

I'm a diving newbie and have a new-to-me gear configuration so I did a lot of shared-air drills in the pool before hitting the lakes again this season. I'm glad I did. Free-flows and freezeups *happen*.

So do screwups. In other fields of human endeavour it is always possible for someone, no matter how experienced and well-trained, to suffer a brain fart (can I say fart or would you prefer flattus?) and screw up royally. Is diving an exception?