Toby

[Bubble Boy]

seahunter once bubbled...
Thanks for the graphic details bubble boy. I'm not entirely sure if much was gained by reading that anymore than we are more careful drivers by hearing how a person's head was torn off in a car accident.

Some technical deatils that are not common knowledge might be more interesting. I am not defending nor attacking anyone by stating these things.

1. Stationary compressed air bottles are not required to be visually inspected. Even the storage ones in every dive store are NOT inspected each year. A visual is unique to portable bottles and particularly to scuba for a variety of reasons which you may be able to guess - marine environment and private (read sloppy) care.

The information was given to correct a statement made earlier pointing the blame on the employee of the dive shop.

How often do you visually inspect your store cascade bottles?

 

[detroit diver]

seahunter once bubbled...
......
For me personally who was trained on two hose and how to buddy breath on two hose (quite a trick I'll tell you!), I would not buddy breath with another diver in an emergency. If he runs out of air, he can damn well go to the surface. I have no intention of increasing the number of 2-diver deaths in the accident reports at my own expense.

Now here's a guy we all want to dive with. NOT. Great attitude.

 

[seahunter]

Read again bubble: stationary compressed air bottles do not require nor need visuals. Visuals, you need to realize are unique to scuba diving tanks. While other users these days may also employ a visual test, they were started by scuba divers for scuba tanks. If you understand the reason for visuals, you'd understand why scuba tanks need them while other tanks do not. Cascade bottles are not scuba bottles and do not require nor need them. In fact, conducting a visual on a stationary bottle may be detrimental to the bottle.
If you are concerned about the lack of visuals on cascade bottles, you'll shiver to know that oxgen, actetylene, helium, hydrogen, propane, etc stationary bottles do not have visuals either. BTW stationary does not mean they are not portable nor even that they do not move but simply that in use, they are not moving.
Each day on the highway, bottles filled with highly flammable gases pass you and your vehicle regularly.

I don't think anyone intended to blame the employee. It sure wasn't his fault! You bring up a good point however. In the very rare cases where a tank has caused a problem, it has almost invariably been the dive store staff that suffered - not the diver.

You wish you could find a diver who has so firm a grip on reality as I do detroit!!
If you think you might need to buddy breath with me (or any other diver) or that I should be prepared to buddy breath with you, read the diver accident reports for the last 10 years.

There is a disproportionate number of accidents in which two divers die. 2 divers don't get into trouble at the same time - one gets into trouble and he kills his buddy!! That's reality - not bad attitude.

In training in the 60's, we buddy breathed with 2 hose regs while blacked out, up-side down, without masks, without fins and during serious harassment from the instructors so it's not a matter of not being able to buddy breath - it's a conscious decision to not do it!
The octopus has made the share air exercise a lot safer and the emergency more manageable but still to be avoided at all costs. In less than 30', in an out-of-air emergency you should go up. I assume you've been trained to make a controlled emergency ascent! You'll be safely at the surface before you'd even find your buddy and secure the octopus in most cases.

Take a Rescue Diver course and learn about staying away from dumb, dangerous divers. Anyone think a diver who runs out of air isn't dumb and dangerous?

 

[Bubble Boy]

seahunter once bubbled...
Read again bubble: stationary compressed air bottles do not require nor need visuals. Visuals, you need to realize are unique to scuba diving tanks. While other users these days may also employ a visual test, they were started by scuba divers for scuba tanks. If you understand the reason for visuals, you'd understand why scuba tanks need them while other tanks do not. Cascade bottles are not scuba bottles and do not require nor need them. In fact, conducting a visual on a stationary bottle may be detrimental to the bottle.
If you are concerned about the lack of visuals on cascade bottles, you'll shiver to know that oxgen, actetylene, helium, hydrogen, propane, etc stationary bottles do not have visuals either. BTW stationary does not mean they are not portable nor even that they do not move but simply that in use, they are not moving.
Each day on the highway, bottles filled with highly flammable gases pass you and your vehicle regularly.

The last time I checked Toronto was still in Canada. You may wish to start reading Canadian standards. Try CSA B339 and B340.

 

[SubMariner]

Hey, people. What happened to the actual Toby topic?

Perhaps you should move the "air" thread elsewhere?

~SubMariner~

 

[Boogie711]

it's not a matter of not being able to buddy breath - it's a conscious decision to not do it!

mental note to self - don't dive with seahunter.

 

[detroit diver]

seahunter once bubbled...
.......You wish you could find a diver who has so firm a grip on reality as I do detroit!!
If you think you might need to buddy breath with me (or any other diver) or that I should be prepared to buddy breath with you, read the diver accident reports for the last 10 years.

There is a disproportionate number of accidents in which two divers die. 2 divers don't get into trouble at the same time - one gets into trouble and he kills his buddy!! That's reality - not bad attitude.

In training in the 60's, we buddy breathed with 2 hose regs while blacked out, up-side down, without masks, without fins and during serious harassment from the instructors so it's not a matter of not being able to buddy breath - it's a conscious decision to not do it!
The octopus has made the share air exercise a lot safer and the emergency more manageable but still to be avoided at all costs. In less than 30', in an out-of-air emergency you should go up. I assume you've been trained to make a controlled emergency ascent! You'll be safely at the surface before you'd even find your buddy and secure the octopus in most cases.

Take a Rescue Diver course and learn about staying away from dumb, dangerous divers. Anyone think a diver who runs out of air isn't dumb and dangerous?

No, I think your sense of reality is watching someone struggle to the surface without a breath, while you could be assisting them. In fact, I think you're pretty twisted. I wouldn't want to be in the same ocean as you. 30 feet? how about 90 feet? How about an equipment failure, and not "dumb and dangerous"? You're probably the kind that laughs as you drive by an accident on the side of the road and thinks to yourself "I'm not stopping here-I could get hit by a car". Most compassionate people would try to assist in some way. Not you.

I don't know or care what they taught you in the 60's. These days, WE TRY TO ASSIST PEOPLE IN TROUBLE.

 

[detroit diver]

Hey Seahunter,

From YOUR shop's website:

Personal Motto: "Improve yourself by helping others"


Is this a joke, or do you make it a habit of lying to your customers? Maybe you're just selective. I've got it. It does make sense now. Improve your wallet by helping others buy stuff.

But helping others when they are out of air? No way.

You might want to re-think this one. Customers in the hospital or dead usually don't want to buy anything.

 

[Spectre]

DD,
I do believe you may be taking this a little out of context. Seahunter was referring to Buddy Breathing, not actually helping an OOA diver.

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, and the benefit of a response, to make that clear. We're not talking about donating an alternate, we're talking about buddy breathing.

SeaHunter; I'm going to assume you are referring to buddy breathing... but since you always have an alternate, that's not an issue... Correct?

My only question to the buddy breathing comment is: What if there is an equipment problem with your alternate. I would assume you would offer assistance by way of buddy breathing [since it's your gear that is what put your buddy in that situation].

 

[detroit diver]

Jeff,

We may be talking about buddy breathing, or donating a reg, but in either case he said he would rather watch someone shoot to the surface than help them out. What's the difference if it was buddy breathing?

You're being more generous than I am with this.