To those considering an OW class...

[jbd]

In your haste to beat the dead horse I fear that you're missing the point.
The problem is that PADI (and the others) lie. They advertise diving as "safe" and use that excuse to reduce the required training.

I have no problem with turning folks loose after they read one book and have no other training, as long as they have an honest explanation of the risks, not, "diving is safe and here's training that is clearly inadequate to make you safe." That's wrong. honest informed consent should be what it's about.

Risk management standards require that I explain the risks at the beginning of the class. I do this and have gotten comments like...,"I'm not so sure I want to do this anymore" When I get comments like this I ask the student to hear out the rest of the session and then make a decision whether to continue or not. No one has dropped out yet after hearing the rest of the story.

I'm 100% with you on honest informed consent.

 

[jbd]

Methinks thou hast misunderstood my position.

Jerry,
Me thinks thou hast misundertood my understanding of your position

I understand your point and agree with you.

 

[jbd]

That's idiotic!

Not your comment, the sentiment.

The attrition rate in diving is due in large part to people realizing that diving is not as easy as they thought. It requires time, it requires dilligence, it requires dedication, it requires a willingness to learn.

OW certification is nothing more than a licence to continue to learn how to dive. If you choose NOT to continue to learn how to dive, that's entirely YOUR problem.

And to be honest, anyone who thought the were gonna "be a diver" after OW, and quits rather than get more training - I'm quite happy to have them no longer diving.

Posssibly idiotic in your opinion, but if it is a truly felt and expressed sentiment, then that is all that is important. The sentiment is apparently being expressed because these folks haver realized the inadequacy of their training. Why would they continue to train with the very people who provided them with inadequate instruction

 

[MikeFerrara]

If the instructors are never taught any of the material we are talking about, or taught how to teach it then diving instruction will never advance to a better level. NAUI's requirement for bouyancy control is-----well fiddlesticks--I can't find my S & P. Any ways its something like hover unsupported for 30 seconds or 1 minute (something to that affect) This is a minimum standard; NOT a maximum. I can ask the students to demonstrate a hover for longer--which I do through various training exercises.

The problem is, IMO, that too many instructors are taking minimum standards and treating them as maximums. Agencies need to clarify this issue and and start encouraging a better standard.

but...does NAUI require that you teach trim? Do the require that your students demonstrate it? Do they require that they hover for that 1 minute horizontally?

If you're not swimming you should be hovering. LOL

I guess you're right in that if the standards require a skill to be done once, the instructor can do it twice. If they require it for 1 minute, the instructor can have students do it for two. That is teaching above the standards but I don't think the class got much better because the content wasn't improved.

When I first became an instructor, I knew the value of repetition and practice but I wouldn't have known what to add to the content.

 

[Thalassamania]

You'll see no change at the instructor level without change at the agency level, you'll see no change at the agency level untill the mass of instructors understands that they're inadequate. Since the majority of instructors do not last even two years in the industry, they've only begun to learn what they don't know when the quit. I see no solution here, it's a tragic tautology.

 

[jbd]

but...does NAUI require that you teach trim? Do the require that your students demonstrate it? Do they require that they hover for that 1 minute horizontally?

From the instructor guide and the student text--there is a fair amount about bouyancy in general, which I go into far more detail during the course. Regarding trim, there is a small section which talks about drag when moving through the water. The final sentence reads, "If you are in a horizontal position, you have much less resistance to forward movement then if you are in a semi-upright position." There is a reference then to two pictures on the same page showing a diver horizontal and the same diver in a semi-upright position.

During the course I initially talk about the two concepts seperately and then link them together.

From the OW check off slate I must evaluate for a "Controlled ascent with precautionary stop" As has been noted ad nauseum over the years on scubaboard a horizontal position offers the best resistance to vertical movement in the water column so I teach ascending in a horizontal position since the student is already in this position.

Also from the OW check off slate I must evaluate for "Diving with minimal impact on the environment" Generally this means not crashing into things and not disturbing the bottom with the fins. This generally means being in a horizontal position and using finning techniques that don't disturb the environment. Hence I teach diving horizontal and I teach the the frog kick and its relatives.

I overlooked your question about doing the hover horizontally. There isn't any time during the course in whcih I ask the students to hover for one minute while I evaluate the skill. Instead I evaluate the hovering skill while they are doing mask and regualtor skills during the OW cert dives. During the confined water or pool session this is evaluated during the golf ball retrieval game I have them do throughout the course.

 

[MikeFerrara]

You'll see no change at the instructor level without change at the agency level, you'll see no change at the agency level untill the mass of instructors understands that they're inadequate. Since the majority of instructors do not last even two years in the industry, they've only begun to learn what they don't know when the quit. I see no solution here, it's a tragic tautology.

I agree. Most agencies are businesses that sell a product. The shops and instructors are the first tear customers of the agency. If the customer is happy, the merchant is in good shape and has no need to change.

EDIT: Unfortunately instructors are treated and conditioned to be more like employees than customers.

The tail seems to be wagging the dog in the dive industry.

 

[RJP]

Posssibly idiotic in your opinion, but if it is a truly felt and expressed sentiment, then that is all that is important. The sentiment is apparently being expressed because these folks have realized the inadequacy of their training. Why would they continue to train with the very people who provided them with inadequate instruction

You've swerved into the truth!

Your point perhaps makes the sentiment even MORE idiotic. Yes, it is possible that the instructor was inadequate. However there is likely a greater chance that the student had an innappropriate expectation of what OW training and certification would provide - irrespective of the quality of the instruction. The training was inadequate relative to their expectations, but it was their expectations that were off.

 

[jbd]

However there is likely a greater chance that the student had an innappropriate expectation of what OW training and certification would provide - irrespective of the quality of the instruction. The training was inadequate relative to their expectations, but it was their expectations that were off.

Where did the inapprpriate expectations come from :28: Hmmm :lightbulb: Thats right it came from the people marketing the dive training. From the agencies to the shops and dive operators.

Step right up and learn to dive!!! Explore the 75% of the planet covered by water!! Its thrilling, exciting and a magical experience!!! Travel to exotic places and see things never seen before!!!! Witness the boundless wonders of Mother nature at her finest!!!

Its safe, easy, inexpensive and quick to learn!!!! Step right up and learn to scuba dive today.!!! But wait, theres more--sign up now with a friend and we'll include your friend for friend free--thats two amazing scuba certifications for the price of one!!!! Call now!!!!

People don't know what they don't know, so they sign up take the class and realize they are a good bit intimidated by being UW. The inadequate training doesn't allow them to become far less intimidated and they now realize that actually this is not quite as safe as the marketing hype made it sound. Hence the sentiment.

Its not the customers fault--its the dive industry's fault for creating the unrealistic expectations.

 

[RJP]

Its not the customers fault--its the dive industry's fault for creating the unrealistic expectations.

Well, as a specific expert on marketing science and consumer behavior as well as a relatively recently certified diver, I'm somewhat uniquely qualified here to say...

CAVEAT EMPTOR!



I agree, that the customer may have innapropriate expectations when they read the "come on" and came in to sign up for the class. But the original point was that these folks had innapropriate expectations AFTER their training. After flipping through my OW manual, I can't see how that could possibly happen. Unless of course the person was an idiot, which brings us back to my original supposition.