Titanium or Not ??

[UaVaj]

I am considering two Scubapro regulator.

Is it worthwhile to upgrade from the Brass body $665 (MK25/S600) to the Titainium body $1555 (MK25T/S600T). To my understanding. The ONLY thing different is the metal used in the body of the first stage and trim ring on the second stage - everything else is the exact same.

Money isn't an issue. I just don't want to spend money on a feature (titanium) which I may never benefit. I could also careless about the braggin right that the titanium may comes with. I don't plan to travel with this so the weight saving is also insignificant. Majority of my dives will be in salt water in tropical waters - if that makes any difference?

In terms of care/corrosion: I am very meticelous about my stuffs and such equipment will be throughly freshwater rinse and dry 110% of the time before being stow.

Is there any other benefits of the titanium that I am not yet consider? For the money ($1555) Is there another regulator that is overall better than what I choosen?

 

[Greg Barlow]

Save your money...Titanium is not an ideal material for a first stage regulator. It is not a recommended element in areas of high pressure oxygen, and the weight issue is a moot point outside of baggage weight limits. And let's be honest about that one...Is it really going to make a difference?

Bragging rights? I've been diving since 1974, and the true veteran divers that I know have some pretty rough looking gear. In fact, most of the cave and wreck divers that I dive with would probably look at someone rather suspiciously if they had gear that hadn't seen some use.

Another point is that if someone really wants to spend that kind of money on a regulator, are they actually going to keep using the same one for decades? Most individuals that I know that would spend that kind of money are going to buy the "newest and best" as soon as it hits the market.

Nah, brass for me...Take proper care of a plated brass reg and it will look great after a thousand or more dives.

Besides, look at the other gear you could buy with the remaining cash. Heck, you could buy a set of manifolded doubles for that amount!

Greg Barlow
Former Science Editor for Rodale's Scuba Diving Magazine

 

[grantctobin]

I agree that the Ti isnt worth it, and also, Your dive shop might be overcharging you. Last I heard, retail is 1300.00 or so.

 

[UaVaj]

I kinda figure that titanium was one of those extra unneccessary features.

With that out of the way. For $665. Is there a better reglator from another brand in terms of breathing comfort or other unique features compare to the MK25/S600. Obviously the goal is to have a regulator that like not having one at all.

I am open to suggestions.

 

[Greg Barlow]

I kinda figure that titanium was one of those extra unneccessary features.

With that out of the way. For $665. Is there a better reglator from another brand in terms of breathing comfort or other unique features compare to the MK25/S600. Obviously the goal is to have a regulator that like not having one at all.

I am open to suggestions.

The MK25/S600 is an excellent regulator for water above 50 degrees, but I would suggest a diaphragm design for colder water. There are many other regs from different manufacturers that are also excellent choices. I suggest that you take the time to research various models that you are interested in. You can find such reports at www.scubadiving.com and www.divernet.com.

I do urge you to purchase a reg that meets or exceeds the US Navy Class "A" standards. There are a number of regs that sell for considerably less than $665 that can meet this level of performance. Also, I would purchase a reg that you can have serviced locally by a reputable shop.

Personally, I use Mares and Apeks regs, but I am not saying they are "the best". They are very good products and have served me well. I personally believe that if you buy a product from one of the major manufacturers it will meet the needs of any recreational dive, and probably 90% of the technical variety.

Greg Barlow

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I like Scubapro regs, in part because SP continues to support them long after they are discontinued and they basically never wear out or become obsolete, and in part because they offer excellent performance and world wide availability of parts and service.

I was also a die hard piston regulator fan for the last 20 plus years - until Scubapro developed the Mk 17. Scubapro put a great deal of design effort into the Mk 17 and it is in my opinion the best diaphragm first stage available anywhere. It overcomes one of the traditional concerns of diaphragm regs (limitations in flow rate) with an excellent flow rate of 177 SCFM, more than enough for any rectreational, deep air or mixed gas technical dive) and has better extreme cold water performance than any other currently available first stage. (maintained high flow rates in 165 ft of 35 degree water for 200 minutes without a freeflow). Plus it is compact reasonably light weight and offers reasonable hose routing options (particularly with doubles).

Consequently, it is in my opinon Scubapro's premier regulator, even if SP continues to market it as its intermediate level first stage. And that is not bad news, as it is also priced lower than it would be if it were in the Mk 25's marketing slot.

SP does not package the S600 with the Mk17 (as they are again trying to create basic intermediate and advanced level packages) but you can get a Mk 17 X650 package or you can have your delaer special order a Mk 17 with a G250Hp or S600 second stage. It takes about a week and the Mk 17 S600 will cost you the same as the4e Mk 17 X650 while a Mk 17 G250 would be quite a bit less expensive but offer the same performance.

Greg's advice to shop around and do a little research is well taken. However, from a research methodology standpoint, I have never been a real fan of regulator reviews. They are in most cases very subjective and are not done in a blind or double blind test environment or with any great degree of control.

They tend to also use divers of varying experience, bias and ability who are quite frankly not always well qualified to give an thorough or objective review of equipment. Equipment manufacturers also vary in their willingness to participate and in some cases the regulators end up coming from grey market or online sources where they do not get the preparation or flow check you could expect from a dealer, and that lack of attention before it leave the store can make a very significant difference in how it performs. I have in fact seen reviews where a name brand regulator and a functionally identical by slightly cosmetically altered clone made on the same tooling in the same production facilty have scored very differently in the same review process. That clearly speaks to the abyssmal lack of experimental control in most regulatr "testing" articles. So take any results with a very large grain of salt.

 

[captain]

A possibly better evaluation are the regulators on the U S Navy ANU ( Approved for Navy Use) list. I would assume the Navy has a standard evaluation procedure before regulators are approved.

 

[StefChri]

As money really seems to be no issue I´d advice you to buy the Poseidon Xtreme regulator.

2x 1st and 2x 2nd stage.

Very comfortable to breathe, extreme secure in very cold water and approved by US Navy.

Here some additional information:
http://www.airheadsscuba.com/xtreme.html
http://www.airheadsscuba.com/posbroc.doc

and a pic:

 

[SDAnderson]

Flagellating a deceased equine: titanium in a first stage isn't just silly, it's dumb. The weight and corrosion advantage is insignificant, Ti can burn in high O2 environments and, although it is harder to scratch it's far more brittle and is easier to crack, yadda, yadda. A better choice than Ti would be to buy a brass body and then make a bonfire with the money you saved. If I was looking to buy a high performance warm water regulator with no budget limitations, I'd probably pick the MK25/X650.

Ordered alphabetically, some brief thoughts on several of the "best" regulators out there:

Apeks ATX200: great performance in warm and cold water, easy to find good (and affordable) service but very similar technology/performance is available from Aqualung (which now owns Apeks) and from ScubaPro for less money. Personally, I think the Status add-on is silly but it won't hurt you. No slouches in warm water; if I were going to buy a cold water regulator today, this is one of the three I'd consider.

Atomic M1: excellent piston performance characteristics but I don't like the swivel - there are better solutions for hose routing issues that don't sacrifice flow rates. Good service can be hard to find and I'm leery of them in cold water.

Aqualung Legend LX: Aqualung bought Apeks a few years ago and has been busy borrowing all their best ideas. The Legend is a top performing diaphragm regulator that is easy to service and comes with a pretty good warranty/service program. The jury remains out on the ACD add-on. No slouches in warm water; if I were going to buy a cold water regulator today, this is one of the three I'd consider.

Mares Proton Metal: Good regulators and, as a cold water diver, I like the metal second stages but the company has been badly bumbling several different customer service issues over the past few years. Service is relatively easy to perform and relatively easy to find, if you can get the parts - which is too often difficult to impossible.

Poseidon: stellar performance but $$$ and very complex internally which means annual service is more important and, regrettably, harder to find and more expensive than most. Too finicky and expensive (and no user adjustments) for me but there is a devoted following out there.

ScubaPro MK25/X650: Simple piston design, great performance characteristics, easy to breathe, great warranty, great customer support. ScubaPro says they've finally licked the cold water problem but I'm not (yet) ready to sign off on that claim. The unusual design of the X650 second has some distinct performance advantages, though some people aren't comfortable with the appearance. For warm water divers, I think this is the regulator to beat.

ScubaPro MK17/X650: ScubaPro finally jumps into the diaphragm market - with a vengeance. Great performance in warm and cold water, easy to find service for, great warranty, great customer service. If I needed to buy a cold water regulator today, this would be one of the three I'd consider.

Disclosure: Although I've been diving with all of these regulators except the Atomic, I personally own several Apeks ATX100's, several Apeks DS4/TX50's and a couple of ScubaPro MK20/G250's. I'm happy with all them, though I won't dive the SP's in cold water. The plan is to convert the MK20's to the MK25AF before the winter is over and see how they behave under the ice. I should also disclose that I work in a shop that carries all of these brands (and others) except the Poseidon's. As always, caveat emptor.

 

[peterbkk]

I kinda figure that titanium was one of those extra unneccessary features.

With that out of the way. For $665. Is there a better reglator from another brand in terms of breathing comfort or other unique features compare to the MK25/S600. Obviously the goal is to have a regulator that like not having one at all.

I am open to suggestions.

My son and I both use the MK25/S600 and am very happy with them. They breathe well and are reliable.

Regards
Peter