Tips on tips

[RJP]

I make about 25k/yr... $200 is significant for me... an now I'm hearin' that I'm gonna be expected to cough up another $200 for a liveaboard trip?

If you can afford the trip, you can afford to tip.

 

[Hodge Podge]

This tipping thing has me confused now.

If I understand right, you are saying that if I am from Europe or Australia the crew knows I am not going to tip as much or at all an will not give me the same level of service as an American that will give then 20%.

I grew up believing a tip was for service above and beyond the standard and should be rewarded.

I work very very hard for my money and a try to take a vacation once a year to relax. I pick a location at the top of my budget to get the biggest bang for my buck. I do not choose to downgrade MY vacation by 20% so I can budget a tip into the price, this is after all my vacation that I worked for not the guy on the boat.

I am in a business where tips are not allowed by policy due to legal issues it presents. This includes Christmas gifts or any kind of gratuity. The only form of gratuity received is someone telling us we did a great job. I worked for a non-profit organization for about five years and had a great time doing so. I knew the job included room and board and a minimum wage before I signed on. This was my choice. I did not expect nor get tips. I m have also worked the food service field where I did get tips, but again, I neither did rely on them nor expect them ahead of time. Why should the dive industry be any different? Anyone going into this type work should know the situation before they take the job, especially in this economy.

I do tip when the service is above normal and allot when it is exceptional. I do not tip for standard service. That is what wages are for. When traveling to third world countries we bring medical supplies, school supplies and other items that are needed and go to good use. This years trip includes $1000.00 of trauma equipment that is needed and appreciated. However giving money may, in some cases, go up someone’s nose or into there arm. When giving the company the tip it may never reach the person that gave me the good service.

I also found a link on cruse tips.

 

[cappyjon431]

This tipping thing has me confused now.

If I understand right, you are saying that if I am from Europe or Australia the crew knows I am not going to tip as much or at all an will not give me the same level of service as an American that will give then 20%. I never saw anything like that for the eight years I worked on a liveaboard. I can't deny that it might happen in someplaces around the world, but i have never seen it.

I grew up believing a tip was for service above and beyond the standard and should be rewarded. I agree. The only problem with this interpretation is that the "standard" is rather subjective. It is my belief that there are stingy types out there who might use this subjective definition as a way to avoid tipping the crew.

I work very very hard for my money and a try to take a vacation once a year to relax. I pick a location at the top of my budget to get the biggest bang for my buck. I do not choose to downgrade MY vacation by 20% so I can budget a tip into the price, this is after all my vacation that I worked for not the guy on the boat. The guy on the boat is usually working his butt off to insure you have a safe, enjoyable, and memorable vacation. As a previos poster noted, if you can afford the trip, you should be able to afford the tip.

I am in a business where tips are not allowed by policy due to legal issues it presents. This includes Christmas gifts or any kind of gratuity. The only form of gratuity received is someone telling us we did a great job. I worked for a non-profit organization for about five years and had a great time doing so. I knew the job included room and board and a minimum wage before I signed on. This was my choice. I did not expect nor get tips. I m have also worked the food service field where I did get tips, but again, I neither did rely on them nor expect them ahead of time. Why should the dive industry be any different? Anyone going into this type work should know the situation before they take the job, especially in this economy. The dive industry IS different. liveaboard crews work 12-16 hours a day for approximately $.75 an hour to make sure you have a good time. They are also usually told when they are hired on that the industry standard for liveaboard tips is 10-15% of the cruise fare. your situations were different, you claim you did not depend on tips, but liveaboard employees do depend on them because 1: The salary is so low and 2: They are told to expect that level of gratuity. If this policy bothers you, man up and complain to the liveaboard companies and/or speak with your wallet and don't go on a liveaboard cruise. Just don't take it out on those that work so hard to assure you enjoy your vacation. When you mention "this economy" don't use it for a rationalization for not tipping, use it as a rationalization for not spending $2000 for a cruise.
I do tip when the service is above normal and allot when it is exceptional. I do not tip for standard service. That is what wages are for. When traveling to third world countries we bring medical supplies, school supplies and other items that are needed and go to good use. This years trip includes $1000.00 of trauma equipment that is needed and appreciated. However giving money may, in some cases, go up someone’s nose or into there arm. When giving the company the tip it may never reach the person that gave me the good service. Obviously you are not the type of person that my post is directed towards. You seem like a generous person and I do agree with you that the tip should reflect excellent service. I apologize if my post comes across as harsh, but I honestly believe that if people can afford a $2000 cruise, they should be able to afford a $200 tip (if the service is excellent). I also believe that if people are truly opposed to the tipping policy they should not go on a liveaboard. The fare you pay is perpetuating a system with low wages.

I also found a link on cruse tips.

This is just my two cents. I guess I just get a little too passionate about this subject.

 

[PvtStash]

If you can afford the trip, you can afford to tip.

so it Must be true...

 

[cappyjon431]

so it Must be true...

Take care of the crew...
And they'll take care of you!

 

[Wookie]

Interesting reading. I run a liveaboard with US crew in the US. My Captains make $200 a day, cook and DM's make $100/day, and Steward/stewardess $75 per day. Tips are above and beyond, and only go to the working crew and staff, not Captains. On a full boat, crew and staff sometimes make more than captains. I use tips as an indicator of how well the crew/staff treated the guests. You'd be surprised how little feedback I get after a trip, besides tips. I know people like the boat, because they keep coming back.

Tips are a part of the trip. Expect (in the US and caribbean) to add 10-15% of the charter cost in tips. Plan for it up front, and consider it part of the trip cost. Tips may be adjusted at the end of the trip depending on performance.

Frank
M/V Spree
Spree Expeditions M/V Spree SCUBA Diving Dry Tortugas

 

[limirl]

$200 for a $2000 cruise is not overtipping. Being a blue collar guy perhaps you should consider going on a blue collar liveaboard, with lower cruise fares.

A $100 tip split among ten crew members for a week comes out to $10 for each of them to carry our luggage, cook your meals, set up and bus your tables, clean your cabins, take out your trash, wash your dishes, launder your towels, fill your tanks, brief you on your dive sites, answer your questions, watch out for your safety both onboard and in the water. $10 for doing all that?

Thats a huge sense of entitlement you have there. If you're unhappy cooking divers meals, setting up tables, cleaning cabins, etc then you have the option of finding another job you do like or finding an employer who pays you a fair wage. It should not be expected that divers should have to finance your wages instead of your cheap ass bosses. Last time I checked the cost of the liveaboard covered the cost of said chores you hate doing. Seems to be only US divers who participate in this practice of overtipping. If bluecollar guy saves his ass off all year for a liveaboard then why should HE have to cough up another 20% on top, its ridiculous even if the the staff get lousy pay. Since you own the dive op then why don't you pay your staff a better wage instead of expecting your customers to do it for you.

 

[cappyjon431]

Thats a huge sense of entitlement you have there. If you're unhappy cooking divers meals, setting up tables, cleaning cabins, etc then you have the option of finding another job you do like or finding an employer who pays you a fair wage. It should not be expected that divers should have to finance your wages instead of your cheap ass bosses..

Not a sense of entitlement, a sense of taking pride in my work, working 16 hour days to insure that our guests had a safe, enjoyable, and memorable experience. I worked on a liveabourd for eight years because the LARGE majority of our guests appreciated excellent service and tipped accordingly. As far as cheap ass bosses, unfortunately that is the nature of the liveaboard industry. The economics of the industry make tips a large part of liveaboard crews income dependent on tips. Most folks would balk at paying higher fares if the liveaboard companies raised their rates to accomodate higher pay for the crew, and doing so would not insure excellent service, but tipping does.

Last time I checked the cost of the liveaboard covered the cost of said chores you hate doing.

Who said anybody hates doing these chores? My crew always did them with a smile on their faces and always went above and beyond--because our guests tipped fairly. Your fare covers the boat, fuel, food costs, air in your tanks. It is the customer service which makes for a great cruise, and I looked at ten years of customer report cards (eight while I wan on the boat, two when I worked in the corporate office) which prove this point.

Seems to be only US divers who participate in this practice of overtipping.

Where did you get your data from? I worked on a liveaboard for a long time, saw THOUSANDS of guests (many from all over the world) and fortunately very few did not tip fairly.

If bluecollar guy saves his ass off all year for a liveaboard then why should HE have to cough up another 20% on top, its ridiculous even if the the staff get lousy pay.

No one says 20% should automatically be tipped. The industry standard is 10%-15%, and then ONLY if the service is excellent. We did get many folks who tipped 20%, but that was because we did provide excellent service. Blue collar guy should consider going on a cheaper liveaboard so he can afford to tip the crew. He probably would not go into an expensive five star restaurant without budgeting for the tip, he should not go on a liveaboard either if he cannot afford an appropriate tip.

Since you own the dive op then why don't you pay your staff a better wage instead of expecting your customers to do it for you.

I do pay my staff an excellent wage, and I have a waiting list for people who want to work for me. I am not in the liveaboard industry any longer, I run day boats. My staff asked if I would put tip jars on the boat or in the shop and I told them that I will not until the level of customer service meets my expectations.

Limirl, have you ever been on a liveaboard? Sometimes it pays to have a little experience with something before pontificating on it.

 

[robint]

Thats a huge sense of entitlement you have there. If you're unhappy cooking divers meals, setting up tables, cleaning cabins, etc then you have the option of finding another job you do like or finding an employer who pays you a fair wage. It should not be expected that divers should have to finance your wages instead of your cheap ass bosses. Last time I checked the cost of the liveaboard covered the cost of said chores you hate doing. Seems to be only US divers who participate in this practice of overtipping. If bluecollar guy saves his ass off all year for a liveaboard then why should HE have to cough up another 20% on top, its ridiculous even if the the staff get lousy pay. Since you own the dive op then why don't you pay your staff a better wage instead of expecting your customers to do it for you.

limirl - do you tip at all on day dive boats? Most people tip $5 per tank, so if you are doing a 2-tk dive trip and tipping $10, isn't that still about 10-15% of the cost of your boat trip? What is the difference?

 

[DennisS]

By way of context, folks I know who crew on liveaboards are paid approx $100 a week by the boat. Also keep in mind that they work 16+ hours a day doing everything from filling tanks and leading your dives to emptying your trash cans and cleaning your toilets. They work hard and I think if the service has been good and you can afford to be generous those guys earn every penny you might send their way!

My only question to that would be why?

16+ hours a day for $100 a week

It's time for them to get an A/B ticket and a real shipboard job that actually pays them for their work.

There's an old saying, "ya pay peanuts, ya get monkeys"