Question Tipping

[seaj]

I perfectly understand how the tipping culture works. Simply I do not like it...
The monthly wage should come from the tour operator.
When I was working as a DM I was an employee of a tour operator called Club Vacanze.
Customers did purchase holiday packages advertised as "all included": air travel, transfer to the resort, lodging, meals, wine and water, snimation, all kind of sports, included scuba diving (max 2 dives per day).
It was a great commercial success.
As customers did not pay for each dive, there was no pressure to have them "diving more". The pressure was to keep them happy. And the first step for having happy customers is to have an happy staff.
So we had a great working environment, well paid and with rewards for good employees.
Customers had to fill up an evaluation questionnaire at end of their vacation, and good members of staff, reveiving appreciation, were rewarded by the tour operator.
Rewards were in some case a day free of work ("you are a customer today"), in some others diving equipment (the tour operator had an agreement with Cressi, so we had a lot of give-away material for customers, which was often given also to the staff as a reward for good service).
Customers had that nice experience of travelling without money in their pockets, as in these resorts everything was already included. No surprises, no extra cost...

So, your solution is that we, as divers, should purchase travel packages that includes diving, locks us in with one operator for not only one, but many services.

How much will that cost? What if I get lousy service? Your solution will cost infinitely more, limit people's ability to choose and price some divers out of the market.

Also, you keep saying there's "no extra cost." That's simply not true. You're system is just taking the money on the front end and, as you describe it, would cost quite a bit more than a lousy $20 tip.

Your model is limited and would make SCUBA, an already expensive hobby, cost prohibitive for many.

 

[seaj]

I don't think I agree with this. People in all professions are expected to do their best, tips or not. Several people have mentioned in this thread that workers expecting tips will perform LESS than their best if they're unsatisfied with the amount they receive. So in reality it sounds like it has the opposite effect.

Huh, is that serious? I don't mean that to be unkind.

1) Sometimes the best of people can have a bad day. How does a tip hurt that if, as you say, "People in all professions are expected to do their best."

2) If people are "expected to do their best," why would they ever do "LESS."

3) Respectfully, I don't know if you understand tipping. Tips are traditionally given AFTER service is rendered. How would they know to treat you poorly during service? And, circle back to number 2.

 

[Aura]

2) If people are "expected to do their best," why would they ever do "LESS."

One of the things that gets repeated in all of these threads is that generous tippers receive better treatment, so that it's a transaction of reward - supposedly good tipping gives good service (the level of service expected for the salary everywhere else in the world). If someone who gives a less generous tip is given worse service, then all of a sudden it's a system of punishment rather than reward.

3) Respectfully, I don't know if you understand tipping. Tips are traditionally given AFTER service is rendered. How would they know to treat you poorly during service? And, circle back to number 2.

I suggest you read the whole thread.
I'll dip out of this conversation since I'm thoroughly uninterested in being talked down to. Have a nice day.

 

[sefuchs]

I'll dip out of this conversation since I'm thoroughly uninterested in being talked down to. Have a nice day.

Welcome to the Cozumel thread. The most popular forum for very opinionated divers!

 

[Angelo Farina]

So, your solution is that we, as divers, should purchase travel packages that includes diving, locks us in with one operator for not only one, but many services.

How much will that cost? What if I get lousy service? Your solution will cost infinitely more, limit people's ability to choose and price some divers out of the market.

Also, you keep saying there's "no extra cost." That's simply not true. You're system is just taking the money on the front end and, as you describe it, would cost quite a bit more than a lousy $20 tip.

Your model is limited and would make SCUBA, an already expensive hobby, cost prohibitive for many.

My preferred way of spending money is to buy high quality items or service from reputable sellers or operators.
I am ready to pay a correct price corresponding to the value of what I am paying for.
I like to know in advance the price and to have no hidden extra costs, such as additional taxes (another bad US habit), tips or anything else.
It is up to the seller to factor all these extra costs and keep me free of the hassle of evaluating them.
And in the end this turns out to be cheaper, although the advertised cost will grow larger than other operators who hide part of the total cost for appearing more competitive.
Regarding the fact that a larger tip results in better service, this is really disturbing for me.
This means that good service is provided only to rich or "generous" customers paying large tips.
This is a typical way of promoting meritocracy.
Meritocracy was invented by Michael Young, an English writer author of the book "the rise of the meritocracy".
In this book it is shown as a meritocratic society becomes distopic and unjust.
I prefer a society whete the same reasonably good service is guaranteed to every one.
It is the emplyer's job to give punishment to lazy workers and rewards to clever ones.
Moving this task to the customer is the way to make the customer entitled and pretentious, and to make the customer unhappy when, for any reason, something is not just perfect.
It creates expectaction which cannot always met, and this creates unsatisfaction.
I much prefer the work ethics that we have here in Europe: not competitive, the customer is not a king, and the work is protected, alongside with the right to be ill, or simply to have a bad day, without loosing money for this.
I accept that people from other countries have a different culture and do not agree with me.
US is a great nation, with many nice features. But the work ethics in US is really horrible for me. I would never work in such a toxic, competitive environment, being continuously rated and rewarded/punished based on how the expectactions of customers are perceived to having been fulfilled.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Tips are an incentive for workers to do their very best to create an enjoyable experience for the customer. That's something I've heard can be lacking in non tipping cultures.

If that is what you have "heard" about other cultures, it seems you are not speaking from personal experience. I have been to many places in the world, and I have not perceived any material difference in service between the US (which is pretty much the only true "tipping culture" in the world) and the rest of the world.

 

[Boarderguy]

If that is what you have "heard" about other cultures, it seems you are not speaking from personal experience. I have been to many places in the world, and I have not perceived any material difference in service between the US (which is pretty much the only true "tipping culture" in the world) and the rest of the world.

I've gotten far better service outside of the US. This is especially true in Japan where they still take pride in their work.

 

[ggunn]

Do people typically tell you how much they've tipped?

I won’t.

 

[ReefHound]

My preferred way of spending money is to buy high quality items or service from reputable sellers or operators.
I am ready to pay a correct price corresponding to the value of what I am paying for.
I like to know in advance the price and to have no hidden extra costs, such as additional taxes (another bad US habit), tips or anything else.
It is up to the seller to factor all these extra costs and keep me free of the hassle of evaluating them.
And in the end this turns out to be cheaper, although the advertised cost will grow larger than other operators who hide part of the total cost for appearing more competitive.

I'm sure you are capable of elementary math. It just isn't that hard for a consumer to see a price and calculate approximate tax and tip. It's not like I am going to Coz and being blindsided by the expense of leaving tips.

I don't think it turns out to be cheaper. Where taxes and tips are included in published price it is usually required by law. When left to free choice, businesses don't do it. If it was really cheaper you surely would have some businesses voluntarily doing this and eating their competitor's lunch. If it was true.

 

[seaj]

If that is what you have "heard" about other cultures, it seems you are not speaking from personal experience. I have been to many places in the world, and I have not perceived any material difference in service between the US (which is pretty much the only true "tipping culture" in the world) and the rest of the world.

I still don't get it. Are you saying tipping is not a good incentive, or not a good way to show gratitude for good or excellent service?

I'm really not trying to be an a$$ here but I'm completely bewildered by all this to do over showing dive operators a little financial love.