Tipping

[k ellis]

well thanks for the debate guys. I really got to get off to bed. Everyone be safe!

 

[RTBDiver]

They way I look at it is this. If you are a waiter or waitress, you took that job knowing that you may or may not make good tips. Most waitstaff try to work hard to get those tips. If waitstaff counts on those tips to pay their bills, well maybe they should get another job. .

Fine for those with job skills and in an area with many options yet lets remember also that while the previous poster did bring the US way of things into the equation, this is the Roatan bay islands forum where unemployment pushes 50%. Not too easy to up and go find another job and certainly not one that will pay any better. If its some DM working ilegally then screw them and the one paying who likely does not do all on the up and up but then again, why would you even consider paying those types for any type of service anyways?

 

[osagediver]

Well if waiting is all you can do then do your best and maybe you'll get a tip. However, if I go out and eat a meal, I will look at the prices of the menu. If a meal is $11.99 and they want a percentage for gratuity, then it should be posted that there will be a service charge.

But no matter where you are at everyone has choices and opportunities. The poor me I don't have the options line does not work for me. Yeah I pulled the US way line, but you know things aren't always peachy over here either. If I have $5 for a sandwhich then thats all I plan on paying.

 

[DivingNole]

They way I look at it is this. If you are a waiter or waitress, you took that job knowing that you may or may not make good tips. Most waitstaff try to work hard to get those tips. If waitstaff counts on those tips to pay their bills, well maybe they should get another job. I didn't hire that person to wait at my table, and I certainly not going to pay their bills.

In the U.S. there is no law requiring you to tip. However, if I get good service I will tip accordingly. If I see that there is a mandatory tip included I will more likely leave the establishment. Nobody will tell me I must tip, and if the gratuity is to make more money for the resturant maybe they should raise their prices.

What gets lost in beliefs like this is the fact that wait staff usually aren't paid the standard minimum wage required by federal law in the US. At the time I waited tables, the paid wage was $2.35/hour and the rest was to be balanced out by tips ("tip credit" is what I believe it's called) I think it's up to $2.89/hr now, but that's still not a liveable wage. When someone stiffs you or leaves a paltry tip, especially if you did provide good or exceptional service, it's a huge hit especially since you're probably paying into a tip pool for other employees like bartenders, food runners, and bussers. It has nothing to do with the prices of the restaurant or finding another job because you might not make tips, fact is the hourly wage by U.S. standards sucks.

I think it of no different when I travel, as often we're traveling to a third world country where standard of living and wages is far below that in the U.S. If you can't leave a few dollars to help someone out who's provided a service, reconsider whether or not you have the funds to travel. Extreme tipping like was first discussed in the OP, maybe not. But not out of the ordinary to take care of the many staff that may have made your stay memorable. Just my $.02 worth.

 

[k ellis]

What gets lost in beliefs like this is the fact that wait staff usually aren't paid the standard minimum wage required by federal law in the US. At the time I waited tables, the paid wage was $2.35/hour and the rest was to be balanced out by tips ("tip credit" is what I believe it's called) I think it's up to $2.89/hr now, but that's still not a liveable wage. When someone stiffs you or leaves a paltry tip, especially if you did provide good or exceptional service, it's a huge hit especially since you're probably paying into a tip pool for other employees like bartenders, food runners, and bussers. It has nothing to do with the prices of the restaurant or finding another job because you might not make tips, fact is the hourly wage by U.S. standards sucks.

I think it of no different when I travel, as often we're traveling to a third world country where standard of living and wages is far below that in the U.S. If you can't leave a few dollars to help someone out who's provided a service, reconsider whether or not you have the funds to travel. Extreme tipping like was first discussed in the OP, maybe not. But not out of the ordinary to take care of the many staff that may have made your stay memorable. Just my $.02 worth.

I can say that it is appropriate to tip when the service is good. Like I stressed myself earlier I just think it should be the option of the customer. I mean you can use the same line of thinking with an owner of a shop. If no one comes in and buys anything then he does not make a dime. So should he rely on any one that walks through that door to pay him a gratuity just because he answered a question about diving? Remember his pay for the day is as well below standard.

Im not sure where its confusing for people to understand my logic but it is a simple one. You go into a restraunt and apply (Or dive master, instructor etc....) They tell you they will hire you but say at the pay listed above. 2.95 cents per hour as an example but the catch is as we know you get tips too......

Anything you make above that is a blessing in disguise as it helps as others have pointed out to pay some bills. However one should not make plans on spending this money until they have the money in their pockets. Thats not belittleing anyone its just the truth. Even if everyone tipped in a perfect world it would still be possible not one single customer would come in that day.

Now in order to earn your tip I would go above and beyond and strive to always do the best I could because I know thats where the key is. People love good service. While it is true this will not always net a decent tip if any at all it goes with out saying that me just sitting there saying I am going to get 20 dollars if I get him anything or not would be poor motivation and hince hender incentive to give the best service.

It is not the servers fault but the way of thinking that any buisness will force you to tip a minimum amount devistates both the respect of the customer, the will of the employee to do any amount of work because its a guarantee they are going to get a tip no matter what. Its devistating to the moral of the staff because the one employee who does little to earn a true tip will spill over and only serve to drop moral among their co workers.

I am not saying people should not tip when service is good but when you look at it from a broader view even those who do get paid mimimum wage are hurting badly from lack of funds. Police officers, paramedics, soldiers are all hurting for money and yet they never receive one dime in tips.

Im sorry that the umemployment is 50% and honestly I wish there was more I could do to curb that. All I am trying to say is people should leave the poor me attitude at home and come to work and eager to earn their tips. One thing I love about traveling to foreign countries is you see people who are nothing like Americans yet they are care free. In Jamaica its as bad as Honduras was described. People buy just enough food for the day and attempt to grow food when possible. Since most have no running water they collect it from a roof run off into a barrel but they are happy people. And they dont complain when they get short changed they instead thank God they god some money at all. I tipped a tour guide 20 dollars in Jamaica and she asked if I knew what that would do for her. She said it meant she could go get food for her family tonight and it melted my heart.

But the simple fact is she did not get on the bus and tell us how we needed to tip her because her family was starving. You would have never knew it by her smile and warm spirit. She made the travel to and from the rum factory fun and she made every one smile. Thats what earns tips and she was beautifuly rewarded for it not only by me but the other 20 people on the bus.

I may have come off sounding like I dont believe in tipping and if so there is nothing further from the truth. I just believe that it should be something given from the heart. Something because you trully believe that the person you are giving the money too has demonstrated that they believe in you enough to make your stay/vacation/dinner what ever the best they could possibly do and do it because it came from their heart.

DiveMasters and instructors pour their hearts into this sport daily around the world probably 100,000 times over and most will tell you they dont make much money but what they dont tell you most times is how they love the sport so much that they sacrifice for family and friends to share the sport from their heart to your heart and show you their location they love so much and enjoy so much. But it is inevitable you will get a bad one from time to time and when they ruin the dive its not fair to reward them the same as someone who poured their heart into it.

 

[Reef Tank]

And the difference between a Canadian and a canoe is?









A canoe tips :mooner:

 

[osagediver]

Fact of the matter is tipping is an opinion. There is no law for tipping! tips have to be earned just like a paycheck. If I hire someone to work on my house and do a poor job. I will not pay them until the job is done properly. Course then that may consist of court preceedings.

 

[RTBDiver]

Fact of the matter is tipping is an opinion. There is no law for tipping! tips have to be earned just like a paycheck. If I hire someone to work on my house and do a poor job. I will not pay them until the job is done properly. Course then that may consist of court preceedings.

Course if it did consist of court procedings it likely would involve going after the business owner and not the guy or gal cleaning up unless of course they were one in the same which seldom is the case in the instances of tipping previously given . If business or business policy is not what is expected then by all means, take it up with the owner or managers but if employees are doing a good job with what they have to work with then they should not be penalized for things out of their control. My first posts here and others after related to someone saying they will generally tip differently depending on whether tips are included in the bill or not even though that has nothing to do with what type of service was provided, Now however he mentions he will tip appropriately which is all that anyone should do. Of course he also mentioned seeing on all his bills a guidline that included tipping 5% for poor service so I guess things are just a little different in his neck of the woods.

 

[kierentec]

hate to bring back a thread that's been dead for a couple weeks, but just looking at the last few posts, osage and k ellis, you guys are a-holes. have you ever had a rough day? one where you couldn't sleep the night before because the neighbors dog won't shut up, then you're alarm didn't go off because the power went out during the night (very frequent on little Caribbean islands), can't find your car keys, then the car doesn't start, then you get to work and realize you're wearing two different sandals, and so on... of course you have (well, maybe not the sandals thing, you guys seem a little too up tight to wear sandals to work). these types of days happen to everybody, and it shows in their performance at work. Outside the service industry (and maybe sales), you'll still get your paycheck. your boss may ask you what's goin on that day, and you have a chance to explain your situation, but you still get paid. in the service industry, however, it's the person we talk to for a matter of minutes who decides whether we are worth our paycheck. if you get bad service at a restaurant, or even if your DM can't stop thinking about his sick dog at home and swims right past the boat, do you stop and ask "hey, what's goin on today? everything alright?" no, you're the types that say, "good, now i don't feel bad about not tipping".

DiveMasters and instructors pour their hearts into this sport daily around the world probably 100,000 times over and most will tell you they dont make much money but what they dont tell you most times is how they love the sport so much that they sacrifice for family and friends to share the sport from their heart to your heart and show you their location they love so much and enjoy so much. But it is inevitable you will get a bad one from time to time and when they ruin the dive its not fair to reward them the same as someone who poured their heart into it.

you're right, we do feel this way about diving. it's the only reason we are in the business. however, many of us have to scrape change together to keep it going. it's not a paycheck to paycheck situation, it's a day to day situation for many. yet we are able to get through that and live out our dreams because of the people who appreciate what we do. so, if someone is having a crappy day, don't make them miss a meal (literally). give them the benefit of the doubt. ten bucks a tank is a reasonable tip anywhere, when i go on a dive trip, that's my minimum even if the DM doesn't do a thing. it won't take food off you're plate, but it will make a huge difference to the person you are tipping.

 

[DandyDon]

There's always two sides to every view and thanks for sharing yours kierentec. Some of it I agree with, but sometimes working with the public is not a good choice - and we all have to produce at whatever we do if we want to keep our paychecks...

one where you couldn't sleep the night before because the neighbors dog won't shut up, then you're alarm didn't go off because the power went out during the night (very frequent on little Caribbean islands), can't find your car keys, then the car doesn't start, then you get to work and realize you're wearing two different sandals

Get ear plugs if you can't soundproof your bed room.

Use a battery powered alarm. I use my cell phone on trips.

Put your car keys where they belong, keep your car tuned, and lay out your pair of sandals with whatever else you want in the morning.​

If you screw up tho, don't take it out on your employer or the customer, each of whom is paying a few hundred bucks a day to be there with hopes of good diving.

give them the benefit of the doubt. ten bucks a tank

Oh get real. This will vary with locations and Ops, like Cozumel with 1 DM per 6 to 8 divers, Roatan with 12 to 16, but that Coz DM is not going to get $120-160 for a morning trip of questionable work and the Roatan DM is not going to get $360-480 a day for any day - certainly not just for showing up.

I guess things may cost more on the USVIs, but do you work for tips only? I'd rather Ops paid more, charged more, and told us tipping was not expected - then let me throw is a few bucks of real appreciation, not expectations. $10/tank is dreaming tho...