Tipping your instructor

[BDSC]

NudeDiver...........you are right on the money brother!

Tipping is way out of hand. Use to be 10%.......then 15%........now it's around 18 to 20%. 25% is right around the corner.

I have never tipped my dive instructor and he never expected it. He's a buddy of mine and he still doesn't expect it and if someone tries, he refuses in a polite way.

Check this out. One of the local dive shops ran a trip to the Caribbean. Of course there is always a "trip leader" and many times that's an instructor from the dive shop. So at the end of the trip a few people in the group wanted to take up a collection "tip" to give to the trip leader. Some of us didn't chip in and of course we were the "cheap bastards" after that. I tried to explain to the rest of the sheep that the trip leader got to go free! (For every ten paid one goes free) How about that for his tip I asked? Of course that didn't matter. "He worked so hard for the rest of us you should give something" was the battle cry. But it fell on deaf ears.

So if anyone wants a tip here's one for you............Don't tip your instructor!

 

[J.R.]

First of all, although I am not a particularly cheap bastard, I will admit I that I hate the whole concept of "tipping" in all instances.

Amen...

As far as I am concerned, someone's wages are between them and their employer and employees should not be taking money directly from the customers. If servers want to make 15% (or whatever) more, then the damned restaurant should just increase its prices by 15% and give it to the servers. That would be FINE with me. If taxi drivers want more money, then just raise the prices. If boat crews want more money, then the prices should just be increased and the difference passed on to the boat crew. Again, fine with me! I'm not necessarily adverse to paying more money, I just want it built in.

What HE said!!!

Then there is the whole issue of WHO gets tips and who doesn't? Anyone who performs a service? A restaurant server? The bellboy? The maid? The door man? The paper boy? The garbage man? Where does it end? Should I tip the paramedic that performed CPR on me?

... some jurisdictions are starting to bill for things like CPR... so... I suppose the tip should be based on whether or not you survived... (good service or bad service)...

I don't buy the "reward the for extra service" bit because these days, everyone has their hand out for a tip and it is expected. It's a given. If you don't tip, for any reason, then you're considered a cheap bastard.

See... 'behavior modifaction' above... and if you don't respond to the negative stimulus of bing tagged a 'cheap bastard' they can move along to stronger names, tune down service... ignore you...

These days, you're supposed to tip the server practically no matter what. It has lost its purpose of a reward for extra special service. Now it's, "they don't make much hourly wage, they depend on tips, so you have to tip." So much for a reward for better service. It's a lot like the standing ovation. It's supposed to be for absolutely outrageously awesome performance. However, I don't think I have ever been to a performance at the local performing arts center where the people don't give a standing ovation. Everyone gets one!! So where is the significance? If every performer really that great?? Is there really no distinction? Hell, even my local video store has a tip jar on the counter for cryin' out loud!

... and let's not forget the obligatory 'encore'...

Last but not least - why is a tip so often based on the price of something, rather than a flat rate? So I bought a $100 meal instead of a $50 meal. Did the server really work twice as hard? Why should they get twice the tip (15% of 100 rather than 15% of 50), just because I ordered the expensive meal rather than the cheap one? What does the price of the meal possibly have to do with the level of service provided? Again - I don't get it.

... no... I don't get it eather... and, at times... the server only gets PART of it after it's shared with the cooks, busboys, cashiers, etc... (hey... let's face it.. tips are supposed to be taxable.. but how much CASH tip to you think really get's reported to the IRS??? ... and everybody loves tax free income...)

Finally - if you don't tip enough, you look like a cheap bastard. If you tip too much, you look like a pompous *******. Sometimes, it seems like you just can't win - especially since the rules seem to change. It used to be that 15% was considered the standard for servers. Now it's usually considered 20%, even for basic service.

Roughly around the time all that stuff they taught me in school about 'supply and demand' began to become obsolite and replaced by the superior methodology of marketing science.

So there. With that said....recently someone mentioned to me that she tipped her SCUBA instructor. I was blown away. It never would have occurred to me that anyone would ever tip any teacher of anything under any circumstances. I was shocked. But hey, wanting to play the game and not be a cheap bastard, I figured I had better tip up you know? So, then I asked her how much does she tip? And she says, "well, whatever you think it's worth". Great. What the hell does that mean? So, I asked the same question a different way. Got the same answer. So then I said, "so, you're not going to help me out with this are you?" She says "nope". *** is that? Why does this whole tipping thing have to be some big complicated mystery? How does that possibly help ANYONE? I just don't get it.

Does she buy her gear 'on-line' so that she doesn't get ripped off by LDS gouging of the poor unsuspecting diver???

I gave the harpist at my wedding a tip. It was $20. The cost of having her there was something like $200 - so I thought 10% more for doing something you were already paid to do was pretty good. Esp. since we're only talking like, a half hour anyway. When I gave it to her, she said something like, "oh good, now I can buy some gas". Ungrateful bitch. I wanted to just snatch it back from her. How in the hell should I know how much to tip? Again - if you would just CHARGE ME THE PRICE YOU WANT FROM THE BEGINNING this "expectation" problem could be avoided entirely.

Yea... but if I CHARGE WHAT YOU WANT... you (being a 'cheap bastard') will go someplace else... keeping my costs down helps me to be competative because a tip isn't a frontal-lobe thought during most business transactions... and ya' think that's an ACCIDENT???

So guys - help out a brother here. Assuming local, non-resort service - what do you tip for:

a). OW class
b). Advanced class
c). Rescue Diver class
d). Specialty class

None of the above...

God I hate tipping. I just wish everything was built into the damned advertised price and you could be done with it. BY the same token, I think it should be completely illegal to advertise a price that does not include all taxes and fees - but that's a different issue

Well I don't mind 'tipping'... what I object to is panhandling, extortion or the assumption that I, the customer, am obligated to YOU, the service provider, in any other way or degree than simply paying for the contracted service you provide... I realize that tipping you won't endear you to me... make you my new best friend, get me ANYTHING you wouldn't provide to anybody else or imortalize my name and face in your memory enough to make you send me christmas cards each year...

... on the other hand... show me you WANT to be a buddy... and that YOU want to be immortalized in MY memory... or that YOU want to 'go the extra mile' to make my experience memorable... and ya' know... tips just might be in the books...

... other than that... if you're proud enough to call me a 'cheap bastard'... you probably don't need my money anyway...

 

[Captain12Pk]

After reading through (most of) this thread, it's become apparent that there are lots of varying ideas on the topic. So here's mine. In my younger years, I worked in the hotel industry; an industry that survives on tipping. A bit later in life, I had some dabblings in Law Enforcement. Now in that industry tipping is not really appropriate.
I have never and will never tip an instructor for classes. Not because they didn't earn it or don't deserve it, but because I don't ever want any of my certifications, nor my instructor(s) reputation(s) to have even the slightest appearance of impropriety.
Now, if I have the opportunity to spend time with an Instructor or DM socially, I would be happy to buy dinner, drinks, coffee, etc. But it must remain completely outside the professional environment.
But that's just me.

 

[NudeDiver]

I'd be a lot more inclined to tip a cop than a waitress. If I tip the cop, I can get out of an expensive ticket. If I tip the waitress, all I get is hot food - which I'm supposed to be getting anyway.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

I'd be a lot more inclined to tip a cop than a waitress. If I tip the cop, I can get out of an expensive ticket. If I tip the waitress, all I get is hot food - which I'm supposed to be getting anyway.

Which is why one is illegal and known as a bribe

That's also why tipping instructor's could be considered unethical: they are deciding whether or not you pass a course: could that tip be considered a bribe? In most cases, probably not, but still when you tip someone in a position of power, there are some ethical questions.

 

[NudeDiver]

Which is why one is illegal and known as a bribe

That's exactly my point. The only difference between a tip and a bribe is the legality. Aside from which, in some cultures, it is perfectly acceptable and completely expected for you to bribe. It's not an ethical issue at all.

That's also why tipping instructor's could be considered unethical: they are deciding whether or not you pass a course: could that tip be considered a bribe?

Well, if you tip AFTER you've done the paperwork, you can eliminate that concern, if it is important to you.

 

[squiddly]

Which is why one is illegal and known as a bribe

That's also why tipping instructor's could be considered unethical: they are deciding whether or not you pass a course: could that tip be considered a bribe? In most cases, probably not, but still when you tip someone in a position of power, there are some ethical questions.

Ummmm, I can't believe I even need to write this but, no one ever tips before the paperwork is signed. People who do not pass don't tip.

Instructors do not expect tips but again chocolates, lunch, a 20$ or anything is really just a nice way to say thanks (if you actually want to say thanks) and not at all about percentage. I've also received postcards and hair conditioner, I love it, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. No sarcasm intended.

If somebody reacts like the violinist then do take your money back, that is just rude and she is an *ss.

Turning this into something about class wars seems a bit excessive, just don't accept the tip for goodness sake and don't make it out to be something it's not.

Yes a tip cup in your video store is laughable, but that is comparing apples to oranges.

In a perfect world, everyone would stop tipping and wages would go up and so would prices. Fine. But this could go so many different ways. I for one am pretty sure most everyone would complain about prices (they already do, never mind the world economy at the moment).

Suppose then that these people cut back on going to dinner, dive vacations and etc. Some business' would have to close down and then with higher prices the quality of service should go up. But maybe not, what if it actually ended up going down due to the lack of choices and competition?

Most employees with tip based wages accept that non-Americans do not tip for good service, that doesn't mean they enjoy it.

Again tip if you want to, don't if you don't. I'm fairly certain the majority will not be insulted, just the opposite. And if they actually refuse (I won't hold my breath for that one) so what?

Thank you to everyone who tips.

 

[NudeDiver]

People who do not pass don't tip.

Which is rather curious, don't you think? After all, if tips are to make up for low wages, or tips are to reward superior service, then it whether to tip or not shouldn't depend on passing the class.

Most employees with tip based wages accept that non-Americans do not tip for good service, that doesn't mean they enjoy it.

So why should I be punished just because I am semi-American? Surely I can't be held responsible for all of the evils of my federal government.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

Ummmm, I can't believe I even need to write this but, no one ever tips before the paperwork is signed. People who do not pass don't tip.

What you said in a weird way kind of proves my point. If you know the only way to potentially get a tip as an instructor is to pass the student, do you not have some extra motive to pass them?

Would it be okay for a cops to take "tips" as long as it is only after they choose to let someone off with a warning, even though they know ahead of time that if they give a ticket, the chance of that tip is gone? Probably not, this would still be considered unethical.

By the way tips should work in theory, passing the course should have nothing to do with it. If you have a instructor who does everything for you and does an amazing job, in the end if you pass or fail shouldn't matter.

I know it's more a macro problem than a specific one, but giving money to people who choose if you pass or fail just seems odd to me.

Instructors do not expect tips but again chocolates, lunch, a 20$ or anything is really just a nice way to say thanks (if you actually want to say thanks) and not at all about percentage. I've also received postcards and hair conditioner, I love it, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. No sarcasm intended.

I think these are a little bit more appropriate than cash, personally. Just giving a "teacher" cash doesn't seem right to me. But giving a small gift that is unlikely to have much "bribe" potential seems fine. I used to give elementary school teachers chocolates and stuff, but you never gave them cash.

Yes a tip cup in your video store is laughable, but that is comparing apples to oranges.

Why? If the person working there is really friendly, maybe helps you find a movie, keeps the line moving fast, tells you to have a great night: why is it 'laughable' when it's considered perfectly acceptable for others? It's arbitrary.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Which is rather curious, don't you think? After all, if tips are to make up for low wages, or tips are to reward superior service, then it whether to tip or not shouldn't depend on passing the class.

I agree.

So why should I be punished just because I am semi-American? Surely I can't be held responsible for all of the evils of my federal government.

I would hope people would judge you for who you are and what you do. If they judge you based on your nationality, then their opinion is meaningless.