Tipping your instructor

[caseybird]

Time to eliminate the tip system, regardless of industry. Pay people what they are worth.

Good luck on this.

 

[NudeDiver]

I feel there is a difference between a doctor, lawyer , and a professional in the dive industry. In wages particuliarly.

The difference is that most people don't feel the need to tip a doctor or lawyer - allowing them and/or their employers to keep wages high. In other fields, people do feel the need to tip - allowing their employers to keep their wages low, under the theory that "maybe the customers will make it up themselves."

But, I feel if some one goes above the norm to make my experience pleasureable, then I reward this. It is a way to say thank you.

I do to. I continue to do business with them in the future.

 

[RJP]

DELETED

Note to self: read whole thread before responding to first few posts...

 

[NudeDiver]

Good luck on this.

The problem would be easily solved, if consumers didn't allow it to go on.

If tipping just STOPPED, the following would happen:

a). Wages would remain low. Employees would drop out of the career, reducing the supply of employees. As this happens, demand for the remaining employees would increase. This would continue, until the supply/demand ratio of employees reached a balance point with respect to available wages, which would have to increase. Employment could become more attractive for many, since their wage would be more stable and dependable. Employment could become less attractive for some, since they could interpret the loss of a tip as the loss of an incentive.

b). Employers would be required to pay their employees more, to enable them to attract the amount required to maintain a viable business. Those that did not would eventually perish. Those that did could thrive.

c). Employers would either endure lower profit margins (unlikely), or pass on the additional direct costs to consumers. Employers could use continued employment as an incentive for all employees - making it known that only employees with good customer service skills and attitudes would keep their jobs.

d). Some consumers would see lower over-all costs. Why? Because these are the ones tipping. What they're paying DOES cover the actual cost + profit of the operator, and then some.They are effectively subsidizing, via the tip, the costs for the non-tippers. They also avoid all the drama and second-guessing involved with the tipping system. This group of consumers would benefit. They may go diving more.

e). Some consumers would see higher over-all costs. Why? Because they are the ones not tipping, or under-tipping. What they're paying does not cover the actual cost + profit of the operator. They are effectively being subsidized, via the tip, by the tippers. This group of consumers would feel that they do not benefit. They may go diving less, or drop out completely.

At the end of the day, after some turbulence, the costs to the employer are basically the same. The earnings of the employees (with some possible exceptions for the ones with a true gift for customer service) would probably be the same or possibly higher (since all customers would now effectively tip via higher service fees). Many customers would also benefit, since they would no longer be over-paying. The only losers in eliminating the tip system are the non-tipping free-riders - who are more than happy to allow others to subsidize their diving trips, by using tipping to deflate service fees.

So, tippers - keep on tipping! You're not just rewarding the people you tip, you're also rewarding the consumers that don't tip. Using the formal language of economics, this is what is referred to as a "sucker."

 

[squiddly]

If tipping just stopped, most DM's would still remain in their jobs. Maybe you would see a shortage of waters and waitress'. Here in Mexico, very few would find other jobs, there simply aren't many choices.
Some have and do work hard for years washing equipment or filling tanks and etc. to get to the position of DM. This is a job that actually gets slightly higher wages than the average (of about 5-10 US dollars a day) . Some of these DM's are working their tails off and saving what they can so they can someday afford the Instructor Certification Course. What chance is there of law school?
Tip if you like, don't if you don't. There is nothing wrong with tipping. Yes, it is cultural and one culture isn't absolutely right or wrong.

Just know that if you do tip, whatever it is, you are really appreciated.

 

[vladimir]

Isn't a "professional" anyone who gets paid for performing in a particular line of work?

Yes, if you consider definition 2 only. In the context of this discussion, definition 1 is the relevant one, although the low pay probably has a lot to do with definition 2.

-noun
1. a person who belongs to one of the professions, esp. one of the learned professions.
2. a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs: a golf professional.

There are amateur golfers (some of whom may be better than some professionals). There are amateur archaeologists (many of whom have made important discoveries).There are amateur astronomers (some of whom have made very important discoveries too). There are amateur divers (some of whom have better skills than professional divers). There are amateur poker players (some of who have made millions of dollars while playing poker). There are amateur sex providers (many of whom are better than the pros, despite having much less experience).

There are professional dentists.
There are professional software developers.
There are professional waiters/waitresses.
There are professional hair dressers.
There are professional instructors.
There are professional cab drivers.
There are professional poker players.
There are professional dry cleaners.
There are professional sex workers.
There are professional diving instructors.

This is a lot of typing where a cut and paste of definition 2 would have sufficed. I recommend dictionary.com.

 

[NudeDiver]

I recommend dictionary.com.

Um...not everyone takes such a constrained, limited approach to the world.

...This is a job that actually gets slightly higher wages than the average (of about 5-10 US dollars a day...

So, in other words, in that region, they're making what one can consider "good money" by local standards.

What chance is there of law school?

I dunno. I never suggested anyone should go to law school.

Yes, it is cultural and one culture isn't absolutely right or wrong.

Obviously, some would disagree with you - the premise being, if you don't tip, you're just cheap:

Calling a dive instructor a professional is just using a word to justify your cheapness in most tropical locations!

 

[vladimir]

Um...not everyone take a constrained, limited approach to the world.

In this case, it is you who is limiting yourself--to definition 2, when definition 1 is clearly the more relevant one. If you want to start a thread to discuss whether dive instructors get paid or not, then definition 2 will be relevant. Can you see that now? Reread it a couple of times if you have to.

 

[NudeDiver]

In this case, it is you who is limiting yourself--to definition 2, when definition 1 is clearly the more relevant one.

So, you're agreeing that someone who is a dive instructor is "a person who belongs to one of the professions"....

 

[vladimir]

So, you're agreeing that someone who is a dive instructor is "a person who belongs to one of the professions"....

No, quite the contrary. But that is the basis for this discussion, rather than whether a dive instructor is "a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs," which, I think, we can all agree on.