Tipping the boat crew - conventions around the world?

[Mike]

Here's something I ran into in the Caribbean. An op run by a husband and wife team. 6-pack, no additional dm or crew. They were the owners, captain, mate and DMs all rolled into one. In that case I did not tip, but made sure to spend a bunch of money in the shop.

any thoughts?

What's the local custom to tip DM or not? That's the only right answer to the question.

I don't see buying stuff in their shop making up for not tipping the DM if that's the local custom. You did leave with what you bought right? You didn't buy it and not take it? So it's simply a retail product transaction, you paid for something and you received it. You weren't making a donation.

 

[koozemani]

What's the local custom to tip DM or not? That's the only right answer to the question.

I don't see buying stuff in their shop making up for not tipping the DM if that's the local custom. You did leave with what you bought right? You didn't buy it and not take it? So it's simply a retail product transaction, you paid for something and you received it. You weren't making a donation.

They owners of the op were both captain, crew and alternately DMs. The money spent in the shop profited them directly as they own the place. The profit margin on what I bought, but did not necessarily need, was considerably more then what I would normally tip. I'm all for tipping DMs and boat crew, both out of custom and more so for good service, but I've never felt the need to go up to a shop's owner and tip him as well regardless of whether or not he's on the boat.

 

[theduckguru]

I'm not sure what you mean by "directly." Yes, the workers receive the money directly--it's not paid into some account someplace that they have to go withdraw it from, like social security or similar. The restaurant 10% service charge is pooled and divided amongst all the staff, including those who don't have any contact with the patron--in other words, the dishwashers, food prep workers, bus staff, servers, bar staff all share in the service charge. The service charge is tabulated for the pay cycle and distributed to the workers in their pay packets. I don't see how that makes any difference in regard to what additional tip the patron would leave. I usually leave all the coins plus a THB 20 note for the wait staff in a restaurant, regardless of the amount of the bill or the number of people at the table, and this comes to about a 75¢ tip for an entire meal, but that's just me, and many people leave nothing but the coins.

And I am certain some would be critical of you for being exceptionally cheap and by others for being exceptionally generous. In the end, it is what you feel is appropriate.

 

[Mike]

They owners of the op were both captain, crew and alternately DMs. The money spent in the shop profited them directly as they own the place. The profit margin on what I bought, but did not necessarily need, was considerably more then what I would normally tip. I'm all for tipping DMs and boat crew, both out of custom and more so for good service, but I've never felt the need to go up to a shop's owner and tip him as well regardless of whether or not he's on the boat.

I totally understand exactly your thoughts. However, I also totally disagree with them. In my opinion, everything you inter-connected is exactly disconnected to me. A DM is a DM whether he owns the shop or not. Profit to a shop is profit to a shop whether its owned by a single person or a giant corporation. The mentality of what you're doing to me is simply a cheap way out for you. What do you care the relationships of ownership of a business? If you didn't know the relationships it sounds like you would have tipped your DM, but because you did know the relationships you didn't. The only person who benefited financially was you, you saved the tip money, it remained in your wallet. You act as if you were donating money to the dive shop owner by blessing him with your purchases and that was supposed to be make-up for stiffing him for his DM tips.

Would you not leave a tip to the waiter in a small restaurant until you verified the owner wasn't waiting on you?

 

[koozemani]

I totally understand exactly your thoughts. However, I also totally disagree with them. In my opinion, everything you inter-connected is exactly disconnected to me. A DM is a DM whether he owns the shop or not. Profit to a shop is profit to a shop whether its owned by a single person or a giant corporation. The mentality of what you're doing to me is simply a cheap way out for you. What do you care the relationships of ownership of a business? If you didn't know the relationships it sounds like you would have tipped your DM, but because you did know the relationships you didn't. The only person who benefited financially was you, you saved the tip money, it remained in your wallet. You act as if you were donating money to the dive shop owner by blessing him with your purchases and that was supposed to be make-up for stiffing him for his DM tips.

Would you not leave a tip to the waiter in a small restaurant until you verified the owner wasn't waiting on you?

Of course not. There was no verification of ownership, it was put out there that they were a two person operation. I am not condoning what I did, just bringing it up for discussion. If this were to happen today, I'm not sure if my decision would be the same, but that was my decision that day.

 

[theduckguru]

Etiquette Rules for Tipping Business Owners | eHow.com

What's the local custom to tip DM or not? That's the only right answer to the question.

I don't see buying stuff in their shop making up for not tipping the DM if that's the local custom. You did leave with what you bought right? You didn't buy it and not take it? So it's simply a retail product transaction, you paid for something and you received it. You weren't making a donation.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I'm not sure what you mean by "directly." Yes, the workers receive the money directly--it's not paid into some account someplace that they have to go withdraw it from, like social security or similar. The restaurant 10% service charge is pooled and divided amongst all the staff, including those who don't have any contact with the patron--in other words, the dishwashers, food prep workers, bus staff, servers, bar staff all share in the service charge. The service charge is tabulated for the pay cycle and distributed to the workers in their pay packets. I don't see how that makes any difference in regard to what additional tip the patron would leave. I usually leave all the coins plus a THB 20 note for the wait staff in a restaurant, regardless of the amount of the bill or the number of people at the table, and this comes to about a 75¢ tip for an entire meal, but that's just me, and many people leave nothing but the coins.

By "directly" I meant as you said is done. I suppose "indirectly" would mean that the restaurant receives the service charge as general revenue and the restaurant theoretically factors in the service charge in determining what kind of wages they are able to pay their servers out of their revenue. The Thai system you describe is appealing to me. I wish it were done that way by US restaurants, not to mention dive operations. It sure would simplify things. The lengths of these threads on tipping just goes to show how it is anything but straightforward to many people around the world.

 

[Mike]

Of course not. There was no verification of ownership, it was put out there that they were a two person operation. I am not condoning what I did, just bringing it up for discussion. If this were to happen today, I'm not sure if my decision would be the same, but that was my decision that day.

Discussion underway

---------- Post added January 9th, 2013 at 10:37 AM ----------

Etiquette Rules for Tipping Business Owners | eHow.com

That reference is about an owner with employees, an owner who isn't performing the services the employees are doing them. Your reference would be great if we were talking about "Do you go find the owner of a dive shop who is in his office doing paperwork, meeting with his accountant and give him a tip at the end of your dive trip even though he did nothing for you?"

In your reference it does even refer to the owner performing a service for a customer and tipping them.

They use a common reference to a small hair salon which typically has the owner working in it and performing the same services as the employees.

This is still the simplest question to answer in reference to the original discussion "Would you not leave a tip to the waiter in a small restaurant until you verified the owner wasn't waiting on you?"

I frequent a small wine bar here where the owner works behind the bar, I tip him. I've hired fishing guides who are one man operations, I tip him. I have dived with small dive operations where the owner dives with you - Squalor Divers on Isla Mujeres, I tip him.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Here's something I ran into in the Caribbean. An op run by a husband and wife team. 6-pack, no additional dm or crew. They were the owners, captain, mate and DMs all rolled into one. In that case I did not tip, but made sure to spend a bunch of money in the shop.

any thoughts?

I have dived with just such an operation in the Bahamas. The husband and wife most definitely owned the business and acted as divemasters, captain and crew--at least on the trips I took with them. If I recall, I did the same as you. If I also recall, they charged a bit more than other shops, the premise being that they offered a premium service. So I felt good about paying what they charged, and I even tried to spend some extra money in the shop. But I would have felt awkward handing the owner of the shop a "tip" per se. This was a few years ago, though, and many SB threads on tipping ago. It's probably apparent from my comments that I have given the issue of tipping a lot of thought. The owners were American, and the Bahamas, being pretty much an extension of Florida (oooh, did I really say that?) receive a steady stream of American visitors. I think that if I were to return, I might just ask him to add a line on the final bill for a gratuity or service charge.

 

[RJP]

I have dived with just such an operation in the Bahamas. The husband and wife most definitely owned the business and acted as divemasters, captain and crew--at least on the trips I took with them. If I recall, I did the same as you. If I also recall, they charged a bit more than other shops, the premise being that they offered a premium service. So I felt good about paying what they charged, and I even tried to spend some extra money in the shop. But I would have felt awkward handing the owner of the shop a "tip" per se. This was a few years ago, though, and many SB threads on tipping ago. It's probably apparent from my comments that I have given the issue of tipping a lot of thought. The owners were American, and the Bahamas, being pretty much an extension of Florida (oooh, did I really say that?) receive a steady stream of American visitors. I think that if I were to return, I might just ask him to add a line on the final bill for a gratuity or service charge.

Dived with a "husband and wife" op in Hawaii once as well. Did 8 tanks with them over two days - a few other divers on some of the dives. At the end of the second day the husband drove me back to my hotel, and I tried to give him some money which he politely declined. I then politely insisted that I wanted him to use it to take his wife out to dinner. (She had been my "guide" on several of the dives) He then smiled and politely accepted the money.

:d