Tipping the boat crew - conventions around the world?

[chillyinCanada]

I'll also tip the front desk person (or concierge) depending on how helpful they are. Apparently, that makes me one odd Canadian, to some Americans. (never ceases to amaze me what some people don't know about Canada/Canadians)

As the other poster from Calgary said, it is news to me that Canadians don't tip. Wish I'd known that, would have saved myself a ton of money over this lifetime.

 

[Hawkwood]

...As the other poster from Calgary said....

....ahem...that's Canmore..

 

[ferris213]

I can say that here we get planeloads of Aussies and Scandis and almost no Americans, and yet there's a tip box on every boat, so the theory that Americans are "spoiling" locals and creating a tipping culture where one hadn't previously existed won't hold water, at least not here in SE Asia. Many visitors to Thailand assume that because nobody tips in restaurants that there's no tipping culture. However, there is a mandatory 10% service charge added to every restaurant bill and to every hotel bill, and this percentage is specifically earmarked for distribution to employees. The employees do in fact know about this, and there has even been industrial action against a prominent hotel chain at which employees felt they were not getting their due. So the tip is there, but you just don't pay it separately (in much the same way that GST or VAT taxes are bundled into a price in some countries while sales tax is added to the price in the US). For tours here in Thailand, though, there is no service charge, and the general practice is to tip 300-500THB (about 10-15 USD) for a daytrip. My point is that you can't simply apply assumptions you gain from one culture to a different one. In the US, restaurants don't add a service charge, and patrons tip; here they do add a service charge, and patrons don't tip. As we say here, "same-same, but different."

juicyblue, it may be different over in the Gulf as compared to the Andaman side of Thailand (though I don't see why), but here on the west coast you are welcome to tip both the boat crew and the dive staff that work with you. Generally speaking, there's a tip box for the boat that is only for the boat crew and is not divided with the dive staff. If you wish to tip your DM, you would do that individually and not through the tip box. Maybe you just misunderstood? .

Quero, you seem to be somewhat upset at Australian and other nationalities who don't tip the dive crew, but coming from a country where tipping is non-existent anywhere other than restaurants, I don't really think it can be attributed to everyone be 'cheap' (as another poster suggested) While in Thailand on our most recent trip, I did two dive days, one on a bigger boat off Phuket and one with a very small operation out of Railay. It wasn't until the second trip that I was told tipping is customary, because I asked the manager of the shop if it was appropriate. The DM was fantastic and I wasn't sure if it would be seen as being offensive. This may sound ridiculous but I know Thai people value the idea of 'saving face' and the last thing we wanted to do was imply that our DM was in need of our charity; as this is how attempting to tip an Astraliain DM could be viewed.

It is interesting to read many American posters saying that if the crew mention that they expect to be tipped, they will be put off by it and more likely not to tip in defiance. For me, as someone coming from a non-tipping country, it is exactly the type of thing I like to hear.

If you get mainly Aussie and Scandinavian customers, who all neglect to tip, perhaps a polite announcement to the boat what is expected could solve all the problems.

 

[chillyinCanada]

OK Hawkwood, you said it too but I was actually referring to cathycalg. :^)

 

[Quero]

Quero, you seem to be somewhat upset at Australian and other nationalities who don't tip the dive crew,

Upset? No, not at all. How silly of you to think that! Please don't try to read 'between the lines' in my posts and interpret my state of mind--I am very straightforward, and I've never called anyone 'cheap' or expressed any sort of disdain for those who choose not to tip, even if I feel that their arguments for deciding not to tip are flawed. My only objective is to suggest that people see beyond the haze of their own cultural biases. There is nothing that anybody can say about tipping here in this forum that would leave me upset. This is only the internet, after all.

but coming from a country where tipping is non-existent anywhere other than restaurants, I don't really think it can be attributed to everyone be 'cheap' (as another poster suggested) While in Thailand on our most recent trip, I did two dive days, one on a bigger boat off Phuket and one with a very small operation out of Railay. It wasn't until the second trip that I was told tipping is customary, because I asked the manager of the shop if it was appropriate. The DM was fantastic and I wasn't sure if it would be seen as being offensive. This may sound ridiculous but I know Thai people value the idea of 'saving face' and the last thing we wanted to do was imply that our DM was in need of our charity; as this is how attempting to tip an Astraliain DM could be viewed.

As I've said numerous times throughout the years in these recurrent threads on tipping, here in Thailand boat crews and dive staff never *expect* tips, but they always *appreciate* them and hope that at least some of the customers will express their thanks for making their dive experiences fun and trouble-free by way of a tip. If you feel good enough about your experience to actually say 'thank you' to the crew and the dive staff, you might consider leaving a tip to reinforce the sincerity of your words.

If you get mainly Aussie and Scandinavian customers, who all neglect to tip, perhaps a polite announcement to the boat what is expected could solve all the problems.

I don't actually think we have a 'problem' here. Some people tip, and some don't. This is the only expectation we have. On most boats, during the final disembarkation briefing of the trip the tour leader/head dive guide generally holds up the tip box and makes it clear that the money deposited in it is for the Thai boat crew and not for the dive staff. In other words, s/he advocates on behalf of the crew, but doesn't actually ask for tips for him/herself and the rest of the dive staff. Also, it's never put in such a way that there's an *expectation*, but merely an *invitation* to contribute to the tip fund.

As I said earlier, one thing that may mislead visitors in regard to tipping in Thailand is that at restaurants and hotels tipping is not customary. This is because in these establishments the addition of 10% as a service charge is mandatory. Because tourists don't see this tax, and in addition they learn that tipping is not customary in these establishments, they mistakenly make a blanket assumption that tipping is somehow inappropriate, when in fact they're actually giving 10% tips without even knowing it. As it happens, there is no such tax on tour services, so tipping is perfectly okay when it comes to tours (including dive tours), and tour workers do indeed hope for tips, though they would never anticipate seeing anything approaching the 10% that restaurant and hotel workers get. If you as a tourist don't tip, you won't 'lose face' because locals rather expect visitors to be somewhat clueless, and certainly, particular nationality groups get a reputation as militant non-tippers with expectations being adjusted when tour workers serve guests from these countries. (For example, yesterday I worked a charter with just seven family members from Spain who paid THB 42,000 for the day and left a tip of just THB 1000 for the crew who gave them a perfect day. That comes out to just over 2% as a tip.) On the other hand, if nobody on a boat full of guests of multiple nationalities tips, the crew may wonder what they did wrong to deserve such a put-down.

 

[ferris213]

Upset? No, not at all. How silly of you to think that! Please don't try to read 'between the lines' in my posts and interpret my state of mind--

I apologize, upset was a poor choice of words.

I've never called anyone 'cheap'

I know, I attributed that to another poster, but again, my post was written quickly and poorly worded.

On most boats, during the final disembarkation briefing of the trip the tour leader/head dive guide generally holds up the tip box and makes it clear that the money deposited in it is for the Thai boat crew and not for the dive staff. In other words, s/he advocates on behalf of the crew, but doesn't actually ask for tips for him/herself and the rest of the dive staff. Also, it's never put in such a way that there's an *expectation*, but merely an *invitation* to contribute to the tip fund.

That is exactly what I hope for, tipping is obviously a tricky subject and for those of us who the locals can rightly expect to be somewhat clueless on the subject, this kind of gentle guidance is a massive help.

 

[Quero]

I apologize.... this kind of gentle guidance is a massive help.

No need at all for any apologies, though they are kindly accepted. As I said, my only objective in participating in this thread is to help visitors here see through the haze of their own cultural biases in regards to tipping, and I hope I was sufficiently gentle in trying to do so

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .


As I said earlier, one thing that may mislead visitors in regard to tipping in Thailand is that at restaurants and hotels tipping is not customary. This is because in these establishments the addition of 10% as a service charge is mandatory. Because tourists don't see this tax, and in addition they learn that tipping is not customary in these establishments, they mistakenly make a blanket assumption that tipping is somehow inappropriate, when in fact they're actually giving 10% tips without even knowing it. . . .

Is the 10% service charge given directly to the restaurant staff, or does it go into the general revenue pot? In some countries, the service charge listed on a restaurant bill goes right into the till (and if you thought the service was exceptional you leave a little extra something on the table), but in other countries it is genuinely a tip given to the staff (and you're expected to leave nothing more). Just another illustration that tipping around the world can be hugely confusing.

I have far less trouble seeing beyond the haze of my own cultural biases than I do trying to see into the haze of another region's economic culture and customs. When I arrive in a new place, I start with the assumption that every place I visit is different, and that how I tipped in another place may not apply to this place (heck, even in the case of New York versus Atlanta the expectations are slightly different!). I consider the presence of a tip box to be some evidence of how it works, to be considered along with other things I observe and hear, and ultimately make my tipping decision based on weighing it all together in my mind and doing what feels right at the moment.

 

[koozemani]

Here's something I ran into in the Caribbean. An op run by a husband and wife team. 6-pack, no additional dm or crew. They were the owners, captain, mate and DMs all rolled into one. In that case I did not tip, but made sure to spend a bunch of money in the shop.

any thoughts?

 

[Quero]

Is the 10% service charge given directly to the restaurant staff, or does it go into the general revenue pot? In some countries, the service charge listed on a restaurant bill goes right into the till (and if you thought the service was exceptional you leave a little extra something on the table), but in other countries it is genuinely a tip given to the staff (and you're expected to leave nothing more). Just another illustration that tipping around the world can be hugely confusing.

I'm not sure what you mean by "directly." Yes, the workers receive the money directly--it's not paid into some account someplace that they have to go withdraw it from, like social security or similar. The restaurant 10% service charge is pooled and divided amongst all the staff, including those who don't have any contact with the patron--in other words, the dishwashers, food prep workers, bus staff, servers, bar staff all share in the service charge. The service charge is tabulated for the pay cycle and distributed to the workers in their pay packets. I don't see how that makes any difference in regard to what additional tip the patron would leave. I usually leave all the coins plus a THB 20 note for the wait staff in a restaurant, regardless of the amount of the bill or the number of people at the table, and this comes to about a 75¢ tip for an entire meal, but that's just me, and many people leave nothing but the coins.