Tipping....how much do you tip?

[Drewski]

God, here we go again!

I can't believe someone dragged up this old thread to start the "new" year.

First up, if YOU want to tip BIG bucks because YOU were so happy with the service you got, GOOD FOR YOU! Don't stop.

If you are one of those divers that do ONE or TWO dive vacations per year or just dive occasionally and you NEED the DMs to carry your as$, you SHOULD tip well!

Heck, if I'm on a boat and the DMs do an OUTSTANDING job of taking care of me, I'll tip well too.

BUT, for most of my dives, I don't rely on DMs for toting my tanks, defogging my mask, turning my air on, etc., etc. Where I go diving the DMs are waiting at the exit and boarding points to help you off and back on the boat. This includes asking my name and taking my fins. For that, I pay $5 a tank, or $10 per day. Dives in our area run about $130 a day, mostly because of fuel cost.

I will INCREASE the tip based on risk. If we are doing a 160 FT or deeper dive and the DM is setting and pulling the hook, I will tip $20.

And, if for some reason, they DID have to "rescue" me, I CERTAINLY would leave a BIG tip. But, we could "what if" stuff to death. Based on some of the DMs I've seen lately, I'd probably end up rescuing them - maybe they would give ME a tip?

All that said, for the DMs whining on this thread about how "poor" tips are and - here's my favorite - how "much it costs" them to take me diving, GROW UP. It's NOT my responsibility to make certain YOU get paid well. It's YOUR responsibility! Here's a CLUE: if you are unhappy with how much you are getting paid for what you do, GET ANOTHER JOB! There are plenty of people working that have MUCH harder jobs than you who deal with MANY more "PITA" customers on a DAILY basis. Many of these folks will NEVER see a tip. Just ask any of the men or women serving in public safety, the military or even the folks who work at Home Depot.

Sure, I was a DM for a few years. Then I became an instructor and eventually a boat captain. Did it pay all that well? NOPE. Was the "lifestyle" worth it? ABSOLUTELY! Did I whine about it? NEVER. Did I make it my "life long career?" OF COURSE NOT!

Geez, enough already....

>> RANT ENDS! <<

 

[bobbates]

Waterskier1:

Tell that to your waitress. Hey, we didn't create the "service" economy. We're trying to survive in it. The question was "how much do you tip"...I am simply answering the question from the experience of having captained appr 150,000 divers out to the reefs of Key Largo.
Perhaps if you "clearly tell me upfront" that you will not tip because of some personal objection to the system, I could direct you to another dive op?
And yes. 3 one dollar bills is crap. So there.;-)

 

[MBH]

I have no problem with tipping for good service. A deck hand that that stows my second steel tank below deck, dosen't bang it around, gives me a hand getting into my harness - I appreciate that and I'll tip $20.

I've only used one DM. I hired him for my first wreck dive as I knew absoultely zip about that particular wreck. He agreed to and followed my dive plan and was just a good guy to dive with. $25 tip.

I get a lot of fills, "good fills", so every couple of weeks I'll leave a $20 or a case of beer for the compressor room guys. If I'm happy then I like for those around me to be happy as well.

 

[Waterskier1]

Waterskier1:

Tell that to your waitress. Hey, we didn't create the "service" economy. We're trying to survive in it. The question was "how much do you tip"...I am simply answering the question from the experience of having captained appr 150,000 divers out to the reefs of Key Largo.
Perhaps if you "clearly tell me upfront" that you will not tip because of some personal objection to the system, I could direct you to another dive op?
And yes. 3 one dollar bills is crap. So there.;-)

You seem to be missing my point, and what I think was the OP's point. Which is: "How much do you tip". I think we expanded upon that to include what is the normal tip. I know what my watress expects. The question presented here is what does the dive industry expect, and is it a universal expectation, or is it based upon performance, geographic/national tradition, or greed?

I never said I didn't want to pay the tip, just that making me feel guilty to ensure an unknown quantity of tip is uncomfortable at best.

I admitted I don't like the custom of tipping. I did not say I wanted something for nothing. I fact, my point is tell me up front what you expect or come to some consensus what is fair. That way neither of us will have hard feeling towards the other. If you are so unhappy with what we divers are paying, let us know, what in fact you do expect.

I don't think I can add much more value to this - Waterskier1 OUT.

 

[highlandfarmwv]

$25 to be shared among DMs on a long 2-tank trip, like Hatteras.

or $5/tank to the DM on a short (few minute) trip, like in the islands.

I just ask the owner/manager of the dive op, prior to tipping, if in doubt.

 

[divingtigger]

wow I thought that I was a good tipper but alot of you guys are putting me to shame. On average I think that I've tipped $10 per 2 tank dive and that was for people who were really good, but on average it was in a group of 10 people. How about those dive masters who try to gouge on dvd's? Do you buy a dvd and tip or just one or the other?

 

[divingtigger]

Just to add my .02 cents (canadian funds) the problem with a tip being included into the price is that you don't know how much of it actually goes to the servers/employees. I have heard of some places taking the attitude that if it wasn't for the business the employees wouldn't be getting any tip, but on the other side I have also heard of other places taking all the tips (cash or included in price tips)and splitting it between all staff just to keep it fair

 

[Waterskier1]

Just to add my .02 cents (canadian funds) the problem with a tip being included into the price is that you don't know how much of it actually goes to the servers/employees. I have heard of some places taking the attitude that if it wasn't for the business the employees wouldn't be getting any tip, but on the other side I have also heard of other places taking all the tips (cash or included in price tips)and splitting it between all staff just to keep it fair

When I buy groceries, do I know how much went to the farmer, the produce picker, the guy who put gas in the farmers truck, the shelf stocker, the cashier or any of the other people in that food chain? When I buy a car do I know how much goes to the assembler, painter, mechanic, transporter, dealer and sales man? Should I care?

I believe we should be doing price analysis, as long as there is fair and open competition. The only time cost analysis is appropriate is if there is no competition (sole source) or other very unique circumstances (item developed at the offer's sole expense and he has patent rights, etc.). I don't care how they price it - if they add fees, surcharges, tips, taxes - just let me know what they are up front.

This may not seem fair to the workers, but don't you think word would spread rather quickly as to who is paying fair wages, and the DMs would flock to those companies?

Again, to reemphasize, the question is not whether to tip or not, but what is the acceptable amount and are there any generally prevalent rules globally. We all know 15% is the average tip for a wait person. We don't know, yet, what it is for a dive crew. Or even if we should be tipping each person separately...captain, dock hand, DM, etc. I have read that some do just that.

As example, last month I took my first boat dive trip (not including live aboards who tell you what tips and surcharges are expected) with my LDS. The LDS instructor who lead the group told us that $50/person is what he recommended. That is for 4 3-tank dives and 1 2-tank dive week. (The trip was a package deal, airfare, motel and diving, so I honestly don't know what the diving portion cost). That seemed pretty cheap to me, especially after reading this thread, but I didn't have anything else to go on. Most everyone followed his "expert recommendation" not knowing otherwise too. I think the crew got cheated. We put all the tips in a single envelope and gave it to the lead DM on the last day of diving. This is what I think the OP and I are trying to avoid (unless that is the norm, in which case many of you are over tipping).

 

[Gombessa]

I hate fees. I look at my Cingular bill, and see all these fake connection fees, document fees, processing fees, electronic billing fees, and it all just makes me mad.

That said, I'm really surprised how many people are so dead-set against tips. I recognize that most tips nowadays are "expected," and the tippee relies on the tips, rather than a salary, for their living. So be it; if they do their job, I give $10-15 for a 2-tank dive. If they're really good, I give $20.

I understand those when people feel tipping is forced or unfair, but keeping it from the DM/waitress or whoever is doing the work is not sending the message you think you're sending. The underpaying employer doesn't suffer, so he doesn't give a hoot.

Incidentally last week, I went out in a group of 4 with a DM. I was a floating disaster (new gear), he helped me out. He chased down an AOW diver who ignored the line and the dive profile and went off on her own (nearly past the 130ft rec limit), helped find and reinsert someone's integrated weight pouch, and shared air at the safety stop with a guy who probably shouldn't have been on the dive (the DM wasn't the one checking the certs). He didn't ask for tips or leave a tip jar out. I had to chase him after the dive and hand it to him. He immediately said he would make sure the other DM (leading another group of 4) got his cut out of it. This guy earned his tip, but even if none of that stuff happened, I still would have tipped him.

 

[DennisS]

I can provide what I think is an interesting perspective, as someone who is a frequent charter passenger and now newly minted crew member and DM-to-be.

(HINT: Our crew just spent 3-4 full days with no pay getting the boat ready for the season, repairs, sanding, glassing, painting, cleaning, waxing, etc)

Crew also...

- gets to the boat at 6am so it's ready when you get there at 8am
- is there cleaing the boat for quite a while after you leave

I hope you get a good tip from the owner for doing this for him. Sanding, glassing, painting, cleaning--(hint) the yard charges about $50-60 a man hour to do this.