The two... service in a hotel versus service on a dive boat... are not comparable. And basing the tip as a percentage of what you've paid already makes no sense. The cost of a dive trip compared to the cost of a night in a hotel, and then the personal service received from both... completely apples and oranges.
Tipping DM in Coz?
- Thread starter Jaeger62
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The two... service in a hotel versus service on a dive boat... are not comparable. And basing the tip as a percentage of what you've paid already makes no sense. The cost of a dive trip compared to the cost of a night in a hotel, and then the personal service received from both... completely apples and oranges.
Wow... those are some expensive boats! I've been all over the Caribbean and have found that $90 to $100 is pretty standard for a 2-tank trip. Cozumel and Key Largo, due to large volume, seem to be cheaper, in the $65 to $70 range. Hawaii was $120 or so. And here at home, in So Cal, a two tank trip runs about $100.
Can't comment on much of anywhere else, but I'd definitely like to avoid wherever those $150 to $250 trips are, if you want to share.
Sorry... I'm late to the party. Thank you!
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You haven't addressed the economic realities. Competition pressures the small-business dive shops to lower per-tank prices (including competition from non-SCUBA activities!). Paying DMs more pressures the small-business dive shops to raise per-tank prices. There's a balancing act between those two. Having low-morale, less capable or caring DMs repulses customers while high-morale, more capable and caring DMs attracts more customers. There's a balancing act there, too. The small-business owner has to balance all of those things or go out of business.
Higher per-tank prices pressure customers to lower-priced competitors, meaning the business can't afford to pay DMs, especially when they go out of business. Relying on tips allows shops to keep lower per-tank costs (to attract customers) while still compensating DMs through tipping. DMs will naturally gravitate to where the shops pay them more and treat them better. If you think that you can open a dive shop there that can keep prices low and stay in business while paying DMs more of your revenue, then sounds like a great business opportunity for you. With low prices and happy DMs, I'm sure you'll be very successful. However, I bet others have thought the same thing.
Tipping is the mechanism to compensate DMs in a very competitive market that requires lower up-front costs to stay in business while rewarding them for taking care of you. The better they treat you, the customer, then the better you compensate them, and they are incentivized to continue treating customers well. I'm willing to bet money that none of the Cozumel dive shop owners are 1% fat cats just rolling in the money they are stealing from their employees. All it would take is one 'good' shop owner to pay themself less to keep prices low and treat the employees right, and all the workers would flock to that shop. That could be you!
+1 for what george-monnat-jr said. I’ve been thinking exactly that, but have been too lazy to write it. And to be honest, he wrote it better.
Efka76
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I read these comments on tipping and clearly see "American" and "European" way of tipping. I am coming from Europe but currently live and dive in Asia. When I go to dive center I see what price per tank / trip I have to pay. I do not want to go into details how much is left for dive shop, how much is paid to DM, what is their equipment amortistion charge included into price and etc. If I see that DM performed extra service I can give tips. If it was an ordinary dive I just say thank you and bye. For example, me and wife just recently had liveabord in Red Sea. Our guide was exceptionally good: he was trying to give us best diving experience, gave us various advices how to improve our dives, showed stonefishes (which I would definitely miss) and etc. After that liveaboard we gave a separate generous tip to that specific guide (of course we tipped crew as well). But this is liveaboard. In Asia price per tank is around USD 30 and is relatively cheap comparing to Bahamas or other posh places.
When I was talking to DMs in liveaboard, our DMs mentioned that their salary is appr. EUR 1000-1200 per month, which is considered as very very high salary in Egypt. Accordingly, people from more developed countries should not assume that people have the same living standards. For EUR 1000 you would be starving in NY but can have a pretty good life in Hurghada.
Now I see a bit of issue when some people consider tips as mandatory and other have the same view as I do. Let's take Cozumel, which has tipping and non-tipping customers. If most customers would not be tipping DM's there would be 2 options: DMs would have to quit their jobs or dive shops would have to increase their salaries. Or maybe DMs are earning sufficiently or even their salaries are higher than average salaries in that area?
When I look at various diving prices abroad as see that dive prices really vary from USD 30 in Asia and maybe USD 80 in Bahamas, however, all dive shops buy tanks, air/nitrox compressors from the same manufacturers but price difference is very obvious. That's why I do not think that it is appropriate to give "mandatory tips" even to countries where such culture is prevailing. Employees should be paid properly by employers and DM's should not expect to get main salary from tips.
When I was talking to DMs in liveaboard, our DMs mentioned that their salary is appr. EUR 1000-1200 per month, which is considered as very very high salary in Egypt. Accordingly, people from more developed countries should not assume that people have the same living standards. For EUR 1000 you would be starving in NY but can have a pretty good life in Hurghada.
Now I see a bit of issue when some people consider tips as mandatory and other have the same view as I do. Let's take Cozumel, which has tipping and non-tipping customers. If most customers would not be tipping DM's there would be 2 options: DMs would have to quit their jobs or dive shops would have to increase their salaries. Or maybe DMs are earning sufficiently or even their salaries are higher than average salaries in that area?
When I look at various diving prices abroad as see that dive prices really vary from USD 30 in Asia and maybe USD 80 in Bahamas, however, all dive shops buy tanks, air/nitrox compressors from the same manufacturers but price difference is very obvious. That's why I do not think that it is appropriate to give "mandatory tips" even to countries where such culture is prevailing. Employees should be paid properly by employers and DM's should not expect to get main salary from tips.
You're telling me that the owners are cheating the customers by using "fake" lower than expected prices, because there will be the tips, dumping the pressure on the workers that are the solely individuals that will suffer a loss in case there will be no tip at all?
Great... that's even worse, and a ****** way to run a business and another reason to not give any tip when you smell a situation like this.
Stop finding excuses and justification: apply the real prices, don't cheating the customers, but especially stop abusing of your workers. This is the only correct way to run a business.
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