Tipping customs in Indonesia, Bali, Wakatobi?

[peeweediver]

To turn back to the original question about Wakatobi, the resort made a deal with the local village, "If you work with us, stop dynamiting fish and just fish for food, we'll employ hundreds of your village folks and electrify your village". There are people raking the sand over and over at Wakatobi. Seems foolish until you realize this is part of the employment of 300 people for the resort based on the original agreement. I do like this fact about the resort. So, tipping. Again, I did not feel pressure to tip or how much because the sit down at the end of the trip was also to pay any outstanding charges...drinks, gift shop items, etc. We could spend a hundred years debating the inequities of power, money, etc. Won't get us anywhere but depressed. We all view tipping through our own lenses. I don't get flustered by non-tippers and hope they don't get flustered by my tips. Most importantly, just treat people with respect. The only times I've spoken up was when a diver is an a-hole to a crew person. Anyway, hope all of you get some good diving in soon. Don't forget to thank the marine life for being wonderful.

Rob

 

[BDSC]

Taken from Samambaia website:

Tipping is not mandatory and an individual choice to show appreciation for good service. As a rule of thumb we recommend to leave min. 20 USD / per day if you were happy with the quality of service.

Personally, I like a “rule of thumb”. I also think it’s a fair tip for good service, unlike those that recommend15-20% tip for a USD7k liveaboard.

I have booked the entire Samambaia for January of 2020. There were a number of factors I considered when making my final decision on which boat to book and one, while not the most important by far, was their tipping policy. I suspect I will leave more than their recommendation of $20 a day because I tend to tip on the high side, but that seems reasonable to me. On an 11 night trip, you are talking around $220 to say $250 for the trip. Even if you were to tip twice that amount, it would be quite a bit less than tipping 15 to 20% of the cost.

I've never really like the idea of tipping on a percentage but it does give you something to go by I guess. Does the crew and staff on a $3500 liveaboard work any less than the staff of a $7000 trip. Likely not.

 

[runsongas]

Thanks to a competitive market (we'll about what is a competitive market later on) the rate offered by money changers vary very slightly between the airport change offices and Ubud money changers (where you get the best rates) I've only seen something like a 2% difference, this is really marginal when you're talking about a hundred USD (I usually change 1500 to 2000EUR overall when going to the remoter parts of Indonesia, -watch out for credit card fees that add up to your bank fees, etc-) .

A day diving is generally for me 3 dives, but it can be 2 or 4 as well.


The Ozzies and the Kiwis are even more radical than europeans on that aspect. they are probably even worst tippers.
Reminds me about a german diver I met in PNG : he told me he dived with 2 liveaboards plying PNG waters. A US owned and an australian owned, it was the same level of comfort and diving but the only difference was that you had to pay a 15% tip at the end on one of the boats while on the ozzie boat the customer departure was only "ta' mates, see ya". His conclusion was he would go back on the australian one for his third trip.


I do not agree with your statements, it's getting a bit technical but you're applying market generalities like for instance Indonesia had pure and perfect information on their labor market. I would be very surprized if that was the case. You could be right there was only one scheme, but the debate here shows there is not.
Talk a little with the dive centers or the liveaboards in Indonesia, you might see it's not the case : how would you explain then there are US minded boats encouraging high tipping while some european dive centers/boats do not. If your explanation was right, there would not be such difference in terms of customer behavior. In fact the labor market seems to me very segmented and more driven by the offer/customer segment than the labor demand itself.

Another factor should be taken into account, I read a multicultural business management study that assumed the relationship between the employee and the manager are different in Indonesia than in say in the US, . (And why shouldn't they be : Indonesian sailors are not north american white collars.).
According to these studies there's almost a family bond : the employee agrees to work loyally for his manager providing he's willing to take care of him, support him in front of others, etc.This might sound a bit paternalistic but it reminds me of the japanese culture too where a firm will never fire one of his employee. (try to give a japanse or korean worker a tip and you'll see what's his reaction)
Hence I would not think sending the message "work for me for peanuts and go find your tip by yourself, I don''t wanna know" is something deep rooted into indonesian culture.

In this case "the law of supply and demand" is a just nice story to hide a rent situation and also, I'll say the word : exploitation.


I will agree with you with the imperfect word applied to the economy itself , hence there is an imbalance in this market.

Nobody is saying tipping is required, but you non-tippers should quit getting so bent out of shape about other people tipping.

 

[Dogbowl]

Nobody is saying tipping is required, but you non-tippers should quit getting so bent out of shape about other people tipping.

How do you know those “getting bent out of shape” are non-tippers?

 

[runsongas]

because if they were happy to tip, they wouldn't care how much others were tipping. they only do it because they feel begrudgingly obligated.

 

[Dogbowl]

because if they were happy to tip, they wouldn't care how much others were tipping. they only do it because they feel begrudgingly obligated.

Soooo they’re tippers not non-tippers then. And you’re policing people’s thoughts now?

 

[Luko]

Doesn't matter if that makes the pay higher than a teacher in Indonesia, that is capitalism.

Absolutely not.
Capitalism is a process not a result. You're confusing both.I could lecture you a bit on economy but it would take a long time I don't have on my hands.
The "doesn't matter" says a lot about the way you write too fast.
It does matter for the country that youth are more encouraged to be teachers than to sail a boat and attend tips from customers. That's the way some countries freed themselves from colonialism, poverty, ignorance et al. and of course you would support that, right?

You are right we aren't on the same page. Because you are complaining that the liveaboards don't pay enough on one hand such that the crew expect tips and then that the tips make the pay too generous such that it is more than other more "Noble" professions. Can't have it both ways. Just admit you would like rock bottom prices without having to tip by having the crew only making local minimum wage.

Flawed logics : sailors could be decently paid but teachers more (FYI an effect of market capitalism is when rare goods are paid higher than goods in high supply.).
Is it the AND you don't understand or which word in this assumption? I don't see where "I cant have both ways", for example if the liveaboard/dive centre would pay decently their staff
Other than that, you still don't get that the comparison to a minimum wage is to determine what part of the wage is paid by either the employer or the tips? My advise : read again and do the maths yourself.

Oh yes and don't get personal, your last sentence says that you obviously don't know me and to be honest, I am not sure I want to know you. Thanks

Nobody is saying tipping is required, but you non-tippers should quit getting so bent out of shape about other people tipping.

Talking to someone here?
I said I tip my guide. My advise : read s'more. Reply ONLY after reading.

because if they were happy to tip, they wouldn't care how much others were tipping. they only do it because they feel begrudgingly obligated.

I'm always amazed with the way some people are happy with simple answers.
Anyway...

 

[Luko]

@Luko - you said you generally tip around 100K IDR per day - how many dives is that?

Here, Luke and I disagree. A 100K IDR per day or $6.50 seems a bit low. After spending thousands of dollars on a dive trip, tipping a dive guide $6.50/day is inappropriate, at least to me.

Firstly I replied with regards to my land based diveguide, I don't do liveaboards or very seldom. I stil think my guide is happy with it and probably because i stopped diving where some dive centers feel the need to display flyers recommending 10% tip while spending s***loads of money in advertisement.

Secondly, I think tipping is also a symbol. 100kIDR is the highest note in Indonesia, it's absolutely not 6,5USD in my guide's mind, where does anyone feel the urge to convert any IDR amount in USD?
I will not give 140kIDR because someone converts it to 10USD, only bule convert in USD or EUR, I am giving 100kIDR notes, the best note in Indonesia.

Thirdly, where do you get that 6,5 is low? what is the calculation that leads you to that?
Where in the big definite book of tipping in the world is it written that tipping is to ensure the guide a decent salary in Indonesia (not speaking of the US, I don't want to hear about the US, this is the Indonesia board, Charlie). What do you do in Japan : sepukku because the workers denied your tip and looked away?
When in the US you tip a guide 20USD he goes out for a dinner and a beer, same goes for 100kIDR in Indonesia a dinner and a Bintang. Don't give me the scooter example : the wage should pay for the scooter, not the tips.
btw can you pls ask my previous question and tell me how much the guides and sailors are paid on the liveaboard you direct? Are you respecting the ratios for salaries expenses I gave in a previous post? Hotels in Indonesia have a 10% charge for service applied directly on the bill : do you apply that tax on liveboards which are part of hospitality business, is it applied, does it effectively go to the staff?
Except in the US where some capitalists don't want to hear about paying their employees, tipping is mostly known as rewarding someone for good to exceptional work, not sustaining their families.

Now I've been observing tourism and the goods in Bali for a while now (I've been coming every year for almost 10 years now), In Tulamben I'm paying the grilled fish or a generous plate 60-80kIDR it hasn't changed much in a while.
On the other hand I used to buy coffee beans ; over the past years I bought coffee at Jakarta airport 90kIDR per pack of 250gr, I looked a month ago at Bali Airport they were selling mundane coffee beans 120kIDR for 125gr !!! (more expensive than any luxury coffee imported home).
I used to buy tribal goods at a shop in Ubud for years now, so I know a bit of the prices. last year, I bought calendars carved in buffalo bone each for 350kIDR, when I got to the shop the vendor who didn't know me asked me for 1,2milIDR each. When I told him the price I had paid for last year he immediately admitted he gave me the regular Joe price because some people are Ok to pay this price.

So yes, you can reward your guide as much as you want, but just don't forget that money and the cost of living is different here. you're not in NYC . Remember a large afflux of money only causes inflation.

 

[wildbill9]

This is a timely thread, we leave in 20 days for a expensive liveaboard (12k) and there is no way I was tipping 15% on top of that. I hope their people are paid a fare wage

 

[Wisnu]

@Wisnu 's suggestion of leaving gear behind as a tip hadn't occurred to me. Are there any other small western items that one could bring for gifts that would be appreciated?

.

Leaving gear or expensive stuff is an exceptional case, ie. when I'm very happy and I don't like gear I use or want to buy new gear.
T-Shirt, bandana, cap and anything small /inexpensive representing where you come from will work well.
Not about tipping, some time I also bring books ex-my kids for the nearby school library.