Tina Watson Death - The Full Story

[bowlofpetunias]

OK so I have read back....seems to me what I said days ago (after watching the 20/20 interview) in the other thread still expresses my position....

Actually I think it was alohagal who refered to the editing... but obviously there has been some editing. In the past the media editing focused against him... this one well they weren't gentle... but probably more sympathetic.

When it comes to editing I would like to suggest that all the people with a vested interest in this case have been self editing. Gabe is obviously going to try to say things that make him look good and not say things that make him look bad. Thomases are saying what supports their position and not saying things that don't support their position. Pretty natural I'd say. That is why I do not take anybody's word as Gospel if they have a vested interest in the case. I listen and consider what I think makes sense.

I do put a lot of store in Dr Carl Edmunds statements. I know he has agreed to be a witness for the defense. That carries a lot of weight with me. He has conducted a massive number of investigations, is an authority on dive medicine. Has received recognition for his contribution to Diving safety and Medicine from many sources including DAN in the USA. He is not just known in Australia. He does not need the money to testify, he does not need the recognition of being an "expert witness". He stated in an interview here ages ago that he thought an injustice had been done in interpreting this event. IMHO if Dr Edmunds after seeing the evidence we haven't seen, with knowledge and experience we lack interprets this as an accident I will believe him! It seems to me he has gotten involved because he preceived a need for him to do so to see justice done.. that is good enough for me!

I also have a great deal of respect for Michael McFayden. I know he hasn't the level of credential that Dr Edmunds has so I haven't made a big deal about his blog up until now. I do believe that if you look at his blog and read it with an open mind you will find he makes a very good case. Once again we are talking about someone with acess to evidence we have not seen and a wealth of experience.

Does everything Gabe say make sense to me? Nope... but that doesn't make him a murderer. Here is a new FACT.. GABE WATSON is NOT a MURDERER! He faced two courts .. both found they did not have enough evidence to support a finding of MURDER. The Australian Court would not have allowed him to plead to a lesser charge if they believed there was enough evidence to support a murder trial. The US Court found there was so little evidence that it allowed an Acquittal. It doesn't matter if a jury got to vote. The JUDGE is more familiar with the laws, less impacted by emotional campaigns and better qualified to make that ruling than the jury in this case.

If someone doesn't feel justice was done

I guess the citizens of the country involved need to get involved in changing the laws. I do hope that The families can eventually accept that justice was done and move on in their lives.

I have walked away from my computer a number of times while doing the back reading. I have done so again while working through what I want to say in this post. I have tried at all times over the years I have participated in this discussion to be open minded and sensitive to the pain of all the parties involved. I know the anger and devastation of losing a loved one only too well. I also know that holding onto anger and hate will ultimately destroy the person who lets those emotions control them. It is terrible that some of Tina's loved ones seem to be unable to let go of those emotions. If she is somewhere looking down on what has happened ....think of the pain this must cause her? I know I would want my loved ones to find a way to rejoice and reminisce on the love and good times we shared not be endlessly torn apart by anger and hate of others who also loved me in their own fashion. How incredibly sad this whole thing is. I don't think urging people to open minds that are steadfastly closed against anything that doesn't support their chosen reality is of any use. Hate, anger and lashing out at others will not bring Tina back.. IMHO those things corrupt the days which could be spent with good memories of a beautiful, bubbly young woman whose life was sadly too short because of an accident caused by a series of bad decisions!

 

[~zeroed~]

I don't think urging people to open minds that are steadfastly closed against anything that doesn't support their chosen reality is of any use.

While I agree with you and the sympathy shown, as I said, what purpose does this discussion now serve? I think the pros and cons of the incident have been discussed in hundreds of pages, and the misinformation is thankfully there for everyone to see.

Divedoggie, I don't think closure for the families will be gained from Scubaboard. They've already made up their minds and forgiveness is not going to come for many of them by reading these threads.

It is in my view just perpetuating the whole sad saga by continuing to go over this case.

I haven't read anything new here other than the insights I gained from going and reading Michael's blog.

Surely there has to be an end?

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Isn't it about time this subject was taken off Scubaboard? By that I mean it should be privately discussed as Michael has suggested by people contacting him directly if they want information.

When it gets to the point you've got family members or friends of the deceased here, and as anyone from either family involved can read the comments and be hurt by some of them either by misunderstanding or anything else, isn't it time to say "Enough?" I don't see the point of starting down the same track that's been covered over and over again in many other threads on this subject just because we as divers find it "fascinating".

Please, let's show some compassion here and stop. My words, my opinion.

I understand and respect your concerns here but with the greatest of respect for your position find myself disagreeing.

This story has been told ad nauseum but only from one side! I will refer to the Thomas camp and the Watson camp because it seems there are two very united groups at war with each other. The Thomas camp was very vocal and took every opportunity and they had many to voice their campaign. The campaign against Watson was very much based on conjecture and innuendo. Watson's family had to endure all this in silence as they were well advised by their legal team to say nothing for fear of damaging their case. The media's search for heart wrenching stories and presenting positions that are far from unbiased makes that understandable. Watson's family had to endure reading the terrible and no doubt painful interviews and demonizing of Gabe across the world. His father has demonstrated incredible restraint, tact and even sensitivity to the Thomases in his participation here.

Watson's position could not be stated prior to the trial for very good reason. Watson's position was not even expressed in the trial. The prosecution's position was expressed AGAIN and AGAIN a judicial system found their evidence to be insufficient for a continuation of a murder trial! The Watson Camp has never really been able to respond to the accusations in the public domain. I do not think that just because one of the Thomas camp turns up here that we should deny the Watson camp the opportunity to have their say to the community that has been inundated with all the information and misinformation from the other side. IMHO fair is fair and if it either side is not prepared to read the information here or on Michael's blog with an open mind.. then it is best they avoid these places.

I have stated in the past as has Dr Edmunds that the divers who went to Thomas with IMHO inappropriate and unjustified accusations have a lot to answer for. They may have set into place the process that stopped many of Tina's loved one from finding peace. Their actions caused unecessary suffering and extended their pain. No sense of weight underwater? Push one magic button to guarantee survival? All panicked divers head for the surface and other statements that IMHO indicate that these divers did NOT QUALIFY AS EXPERTS and should have kept their mouths closed! I hope one lesson people take away from this tragedy is to think before you speak and take action that may cause irreparable harm!

 

[~zeroed~]

I understand and respect your concerns here but with the greatest of respect for your position find myself disagreeing.

This story has been told ad nauseum but only from one side! I will refer to the Thomas camp and the Watson camp because it seems there are two very united groups at war with each other. The Thomas camp was very vocal and took every opportunity and they had many to voice their campaign. The campaign against Watson was very much based on conjecture and innuendo. Watson's family had to endure all this in silence as they were well advised by their legal team to say nothing for fear of damaging their case. The media's search for heart wrenching stories and presenting positions that are far from unbiased makes that understandable. Watson's family had to endure reading the terrible and no doubt painful interviews and demonizing of Gabe across the world. His father has demonstrated incredible restraint, tact and even sensitivity to the Thomases in his participation here.

Watson's position could not be stated prior to the trial for very good reason. Watson's position was not even expressed in the trial. The prosecution's position was expressed AGAIN and AGAIN a judicial system found their evidence to be insufficient for a continuation of a murder trial! The Watson Camp has never really been able to respond to the accusations in the public domain. I do not think that just because one of the Watson camp turns up here that we should deny the Watson camp the opportunity to have their say to the community that has been inundated with all the information and misinformation from the other side. IMHO fair is fair and if it either side is not prepared to read the information here or on Michael's blog with an open mind.. then it is best they avoid these places.

I have stated in the past as has Dr Edmunds that the divers who went to Thomas with IMHO inappropriate and unjustified accusations have a lot to answer for. They may have set into place the process that stopped many of Tina's loved one from suffering unnecessary and extended pain. No sense of weight underwater? Push one magic button to guarantee survival? All panicked divers head for the surface and other statements that IMHO indicate that these divers did NOT QUALIFY AS EXPERTS and should have kept their mouths closed! I hope one lesson people take away from this tragedy is to think before you speak and take action that may cause irreparable harm!

I agree that the Thomas' side has been well-represented (a misnomer, perhaps I should say over-represented). But I ask again, what on earth can we learn now by going over and over this? Is it only to satisfy ourselves, or do we believe we are doing the Watson family some sort of "favour"? In my opinion I don't think that we are; I think we'd be better letting this rest and allowing everyone the time and space to heal.

The Watson side is well-written by Michael and his blog is available publicly. Whether people choose to believe that or not is up to them. I personally don't believe another 500 pages on Scubaboard is going to change anyone's mind.

And hurting those directly involved by our comments, whether or not we believe we are doing it in their best interests, doesn't help anything in my opinion.

 

[~zeroed~]

Anyway, I best let this rest myself now. Thank you everyone for the discussion.It was great to (mostly) see various opinions expressed without the need for impoliteness.

 

[Mark Derail]

I disagree with Zeroed. The whole point for "inexperienced" divers such as ourselves (Sylvie & I) - is to learn from past mistakes.

Since being on Scubaboard, I've improve significantly my security.
- whistles
- smb
- proper weight
- proper breathing

Here in Quebec they added to the divers an "extra" course and certification to be able to dive in our lakes & rivers, BECAUSE of inadequate training killed some overweighted divers.

To pass this "extra" certification in Quebec, 3 skills must be demonstrated while showing proper neutral buoyancy with an instructor.

Many divers have complained that this extra certification is just an extra tax - Ontario divers don't come to Quebec anymore.

However, perhaps there's merit to having more than one Instructor qualifying an Open Water diver.

Sylvie and I were "passed" by a nice Mexican instructor called Lucio Flores, but all our courses were done here in Montreal including pool sessions.

The fact that we had to redo everything, diving from a boat in huge waves, in salt water, was quite difficult. Like the mask removal and gear removal.

Easy in a pool or in a fresh water "canal" with with no current, quite daunting with 50 feet of water over your head and rocked to-and-fro by the wave current.

So perhaps, because we trained in Montreal and certified OW in Mexico, after only the first 4 dives we were both better divers than Tina was?

I personally think Tina put too much trust in Gabe - not enough trust in herself in mastering her skills - and panicking in a dive situation that was a 90% match to the very first dive in my log book.

Before participating in this thread - I had already condemned in my mind Gabe based on what I heard on the media and hearsay. Now, I believe the scenario that Tina panicked, then so did Gabe, after reading the actual facts.

Which I find easy to believe, having been explained similar accidents due to over weighted jackets.

Isn't it about time this subject was taken off Scubaboard?

Please, let's show some compassion here and stop. My words, my opinion.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

I disagree. The whole point for "inexperienced" divers such as ourselves (Sylvie & I) - is to learn from past mistakes.

Here in Quebec they added to the divers an "extra" course and certification to be able to dive in our lakes & rivers, BECAUSE of inadequate training killed some overweighted divers.

To pass this "extra" certification in Quebec, 3 skills must be demonstrated while showing proper neutral buoyancy with an instructor.

Many divers have complained that this extra certification is just an extra tax - Ontario divers don't come to Quebec anymore.

However, perhaps there's merit to having more than one Instructor qualifying an Open Water diver.

That is quite interesting Mark. I know the number of dives in Queensland with the GBR and being a dive destination have meant additional rules... which unfortunately were not followed in this case. The goal is to reduce the chances of these tragic events happening. We dived Lady Elliott Island a couple trips (GBR) and if divers had not conducted enough recent dives demonstrated in their log books they were given a free "refresher course" in the pool before being allowed to dive.

I would be interested to know what those skills you speak of are and if there is evidence that these rules have reduced incidents?

FWIW having two different instructors required to qualify a OW diver IMHO wouldn't help. A number of years back we were not allow to assess our own students (another but somewhat related field). Another trainer/assessor would take your class and in many cases you just switched classes with the other trainer. It was an expensive process where we had a distance to travel between course locations. People involved wound up with bias against or more often for other trainers. Often people would sign off the students as they knew the instructor would be assessing their class soon and they didn't want to have any grudges when that occurred.

BTW some might consider diving in Quebec to be an exotic location

 

[Griffo]

I'd like to thank Michael for taking the time to put up such a comprehensive article. Like most people I had long based my opinion on Gabes innocence on the information fed to us by the TV networks. Over the last couple of months however, I had changed my mind based on the other threads to to thinking that he was probably innocent. Having now read your article i'm totally convinced that he is innocent of murder, and that the Qld Police totally bothced their investigation. Your article is now a great source of information on the event that I can 'hand out' to other people.

 

[Mark Derail]

The 3 skills were complete mask removal, signaling a no more air to your dive buddy, removing your reg and taking their spare, then moving back to your reg. Blowing bubbles between regs. While at depth of at least 10M or > 25 feet.

Quebec's exotic dive - unless you want to do ice diving - is the wall at Tadousac, which is a drift dive. Wall goes way down over 1000 feet.

That is quite interesting Mark. I know the number of dives in Queensland with the GBR and being a dive destination have meant additional rules... which unfortunately were not followed in this case. The goal is to reduce the chances of these tragic events happening. We dived Lady Elliott Island a couple trips (GBR) and if divers had not conducted enough recent dives demonstrated in their log books they were given a free "refresher course" in the pool before being allowed to dive.

I would be interested to know what those skills you speak of are and if there is evidence that these rules have reduced incidents?

BTW some might consider diving in Quebec to be an exotic location

 

[Mark Derail]

Alcohol - causing dehydration.

There was a case where a diver posted here on SB that he got bent, mostly because he wasn't hydrated enough.

The same might hold true for the narcosis effect that most get in the 30-40M range, but could be triggered earlier with a speedy descent, lack of hydration.

My ears would have killed me had I descended as quickly as Tina did. That alone might trigger panic, the pain is *huge*.