Time to open the Solo Forum?

[The Chairman]

When you told instructors that you dove solo, it resulted in a graphic demonstration of rage induced apoplexy. When you reasoned with them, that as an instructor, they dove solo all the time, the amount of dancing and justifying themselves would have shamed even a politician! Now if I could just convince my fellow instructors to stop promoting 'bounce dives' by continuing to teach CESAs in open water.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

When you told instructors that you dove solo, it resulted in a graphic demonstration of rage induced apoplexy. When you reasoned with them, that as an instructor, they dove solo all the time, the amount of dancing and justifying themselves would have shamed even a politician! Now if I could just convince my fellow instructors to stop promoting 'bounce dives' by continuing to teach CESAs in open water.

SEI still does a horizontal CESA in the pool. Well more like diagonal from deep end to shallow. I find it a very valuable lesson in just what one breath on scuba is. BUT it is no longer required in OW. Which is great for me.

I had a serious reverse block as a DM years ago. Ever since then the exercise that gave me the most pause personally was the CESA. I can do it but if given the choice it's a last resort.

I still teach actual buddy breathing and would prefer that any day. The people I dive with the most are those who would have no problem with a buddy breathing swim and ascent. After an air share with octo or not running out of gas in the first place situation of course.

Although I disagree with the instructors are always diving solo thought. If I were not absolutely sure that my students were capable of assisting me or their buddy and of being a good buddy they would not be in open water. On checkouts I like classes of three. One is my buddy and we alternate teams. With two or four (never take more than 4) the team or one team is my buddy and they know that. I'm either solo (completely alone) or diving with a buddy or buddies.

 

[The Chairman]

NASE requires horizontal CESAs, but only in the pool. CESAs are not done in Open Water. Does SEI not do them in Open Water either? My students buddy breathe, but not to teach the skill. I use it to imbue confidence and get them used to having a reg out of their mouth. We swim two lengths of the pool buddy breathing and I find it a watershed moment for most of my students in terms of confidence and breathing rhythm.

I don't think I 'forbid' any of my students from solo diving, but I do have a ten second rule to find and touch their buddy. In that regard, I don't want my students to regard me as their buddy unless it's a private class. I like to have them in pairs, even if one is already certified. If they will be diving together, I want them used to each other and dealing with issues before the class ends.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

SEI no longer requires a CESA in open water. That was removed from the OW skills. Instructors who want to do it can, but it is not a requirement.

 

[Akimbo]

It used to be that the first rule of solo diving was that you did not discuss solo diving... especially with straights...

I guess I was really lucky to be trained before formal agencies dominated. Solo was discussed in my Scuba class. Nobody in the class though they were ready to solo when the course was completed but thoroughly understood how to manage risks.

The Navy was iron-clad about buddy diving, but that was work not play. Employer sets the rules. Even then, it was same-ocean-buddy when we were out lobster diving for fun.

Once in a while we would run across a new instructor or diver who went into spasms over solo, probably starting in the mid-1980s. One guy in our group was fond of starting his reply with "I'll take that under advisement the next time I need advice from a shallow-water common-air-breathing amateur". Poor bastard had to endure hours of sea stories after that... and usually ended up paying for all the drinks.

 

[Z Gear]

It used to be that the first rule of solo diving was that you did not discuss solo diving... especially with straights. Not all agencies have made allowances for solo diving and still think of it as very dangerous. As for it ever being 'prohibited', I don't think I have ever met the Scuba Police. Strongly discouraged? Sure, and kudos to your instructor's persuasive acumen that made you believe that it was prohibited. But there's no provision to punish solo divers.

:sinq:
​

I don't want to split hairs on the exact words just focusing on the meaning, strongly discourage which was you should never dive alone or solo dive. Only dive with a buddy.Sorry but they were pretty clear on that one.

Well, for the board, this really hasn't been either harsh or rude. The solo forum has a history of being blunt, direct, and respectful of the idea that some people just plain dive how they wish. We make suggestions and argue over details here too.

"We" sounds funny to me but I can't find words to get around it. I am not part of a group, I'm not speaking for anyone other than myself, I'm a solo diver. It is my favorite way to dive unless I'm in a cave then I'm the best buddy you ever had.

You have an opportunity here to do it right. There many well versed , educated and highly experienced divers who are actually have some of compassion toaords the new curious diver. I hope that type of attitude rubs off on the others, I know people make excuses for the way they respond to others but I was taught that respect and honor is a quality all should strive for, let us not lose that.

If your idea of the same old way is to be blunt ,rude or just look down on a newbie for asking questions,it is the way it is, so get used to it. Then it stands to reason that the consequences will ultimately be negative. Nobody will want to be treated this way, it is not respectful. You will turn off new people and frankly speaking, in this area it is not wise.

I think everyone got so used this approach that they think its actually the right way to receive others.
I hope I am not the only one that thinks this way.
But if it is, I have no regrets.

 

[Akimbo]

... But there's no provision to punish solo divers...

Of course there is. It is exactly the same provision that punishes all divers when they screw up, regardless of group size, credentials, or experience. Darwin never sleeps.

 

[boulderjohn]

The dive operation I used yesterday and today made it clear in their briefings that they do not allow solo diving. Another area shop I have used will allow it if you have a solo certification.

 

[Akimbo]

The dive operation I used yesterday and today made it clear in their briefings that they do not allow solo diving. Another area shop I have used will allow it if you have a solo certification.

Allowing solo is at the top of my checklist when shopping for dive boats, along with DIN valves and Nitrox. Overall, Pacific coast boats are less uptight about solo and depth than most. I shop really careful when planning to dive other places. It says a lot about the operator and often the clientele they cater to. Even then, most places with warm water assume you never heard of the gas laws and can't swim.

 

[drrich2]

Z-gear:

Often in online forum discussions, unlike 'real world' discussions, there are some major different dynamics in play.

1.) Newcomers walk up & join discussions with strangers. A Sociologist could have a field day with real world cultural norms for small group formation & interaction that get ignored in online discussions.

2.) Often both the topic & the other participants have back stories the newcomer doesn't know. Some folks have already debated the topic on other threads, and pick up where they left off. You have no way to know that back story.

3.) We can't read each other's tone & body language.

4.) We come from different regions & local cultures. We also come from very different backgrounds; Jim Lapenta is an instructor, who thinks about the safety of his students. NetDoc is an instructor and owner to Scuba Board, so he 'represents SB' to some extent. I'm just a rec. diver who likes doing some solo diving and participating in some interesting discussions.

5.) In public online discussions, we're aware we have an audience and often try to market our point-of-view persuasively, indirectly to any section of the audience who might be on the fence, and of course to 'preach to the choir' of those who agree with us. And discredit our opponents' views. Even when people post to you, they're indirectly talking to other people.

Solo adds its own baggage.

1.) Despite some people's assertion of the superior enjoyment of buddy and disturbing risk of solo diving, it obviously appeals to many people.

2.) There's fear people not yet fit for it will get into it, and get themselves killed. Bad for them, their families, dive op.s providing services and the hobby. So if solo diving catches on more, more people will get killed.

3.) Some people seem to have some instinctive negative reaction to it. Even if you provide reasonable assurance that a given solo diver's safety profile for a dive is well within acceptable standards, they're not going to like it. Not just not prefer it for themselves; these people dislike solo diving. It's weird, but there it is.

4.) Many scuba specialties are proudly advocated by mainstream agencies; you 'ought to' take AOW, Rescue, UW Navigation, etc... Solo not so much. I suspect SDI saw that people were going to do it anyway, and decided that a good training program might improve the practice & safety, make some money and distinguish the company. That created some competitive pressure on PADI, since people who normally take PADI courses would jump ship to take SDI Solo (which I did). PADI tried to 'have their cake and eat it, too,' with the Self-Reliant Diver course. They don't even own the name solo! And I haven't seen the course marketed in plain view of their web site. It's like the unwanted step-child.

5.) Given the biases against soloing, some perceive it as an irrationally discriminated against minority, a wrongful (or at least silly) impingement upon individual liberty, and resist this perceived oppression.

Into all this backstory, fairly new divers walk into a forum section, and ask about solo diving.

Richard.