Thoughts on Training, Panic, and Hazing

[ucfdiver]

Right after I got my cavern card, I had swam towards something my dad was looking at, baby catfish, and my 2nd stage got wrapped around his arm. He rolled off to go back to the line, and ripped it out of my mouth, disconnecting the mouthpiece from it.

Fortunately my instructor had simulated this in a controlled environment during training so I calmly leaned my chin down and grabbed my backup configured like this around my neck

 

[littleleemur]

Much panic stems from the students' own demons/baggage from the past. Incomplete comfort in the water, creatures of the deep, things that go bump in the dark Certain things cause certain people to panic. & that everyone panics at some point for some reason. The *art* is to realize/recognize signs that you are stressed/over-tasked & know how to calm yourself down - it's different for everyone. Some people are more capable of self-awareness than others. How to judge that in your students is another matter.

I admire your program and as I'm a dork that way, I've love to sign up for one of your classes I think panic control should be an important part of every curriculum. My favourite part of OW pool was the things-that-go-wrong scenarios (I am such a geek) and I think that the demonstration that actually running out of air was not as scary as the "thought" of running out of air helped me a lot in an incident with bad rental gear a month later.

Thlassamania, that would be one of the best arguements for smaller class size, and for the [a good] buddy system. Some students may need to get used to each sensation before moving on to the next, while others just zip through everything either because they're naturally fish, or because of some macho self-defence mechanism kicking in. A buddy on his first snorkel ever, just jumped in and kicked 40feet from the boat before realizing that he *couldn't* breath! He actually could, but felt he couldn't simply because he was not used to the shallower breathing rythmn of a snorkel. There was this embarrassing rescue that happened and he was forced to wear the orange vest the rest of the trip by the trip operator

In my pool class, some fellow students thought it would be funny to continually turn my air off to see how long it would take me to realize. My DM put a quick stop to that! As to why I didn't feel that - my pool gear was way too big and everything was bobbing up & down already Now, I make sure I'm not anywhere near them in the water. I just don't trust them.

As for someone coming over and ripping my mask off for no reason in the middle of a perfect good dive? I'd be pissed. Probably enough to try and take their nose off with a weight once I get back on the boat....or on second thoughts, why wait?

 

[freediver]

Thanks for sharing that Thal.
It would seem to me that hazing would only stimulate the response for the event that was practiced. An example of this would be the instructor that continually pulls the reg from the mouth of the diver they are wanting to stress. This stresses and, perhaps, prepares the diver for a similar incident. However, what happens when the diver descends to a given depth before realizing their air is not on? Both sets of circumstances are similar in an abrupt cessation of air but only one has been rehearsed through the "hazing" practice. Therefore it would stand to reason (to me at least) that both of the events mentioned would be better suited to someone with an overall comfort in water that can be attained by the training that Thal has suggested.
The training I give is somewhat similar but rather than asking my students what they think they are capable of, I have them perform a breath-hold and then offer a few minutes of "feedback exercises" and within the hour the group is doubling their original breath hold ability! I can only attest to the personal effect this has had on the in-water comfort and confidence of my students, from scuba to lifeguard training.
For me, personally, there is very little that compares to the comfort level I experience in water that has come directly from my freedive training and the confidence of an extended breath-hold. As silly as it may sound to some, maybe even most, simple freedive training affords the diver a greater comfort level in the water and, I truly believe, with enough training the possibility of diverting away from a panic-induced tragedy.

 

[ucfdiver]

I learned as much about free diving as I did about scuba in my OW course. It almost hurt my interest in several OW dives, as I learned I could easily free dive them and save lugging gear. I agree it's an essential skill.

 

[Darnold9999]

Sounds very similar to the course I took in the 70's - but it was taught by the person in charge of the scientific dive team at UVic up here on the coast. So doesn't surprise me that it was similar. Questions re how long you could hold a breath, sound earily familiar. By the end of the course there was no question that if you were OOA you were not going to panic quite yet because you knew you could swim quite a long way to get to it.

Tanks put further and further apart in the pool (a very large pool). Swim from tank to tank with/without mask. Doff/don gear exactly as you described. Long swims with no mask with and without air.

Not designed to make you a better diver, but to make you comfortable in the water so in an emergency you had the correct response. Designed to train your brain to recognize that it was not time to panic just yet only because you didn't have a source of air in your mouth right now. It knows that you have quite a bit of time to solve the problem because it has experienced this feeling before and knows what the limits are. No need to engage the monkey brain quite yet. Whereas someone without that level of practice is going to not recognize that there is lots of time left to problem solve and may panic.

While I understand the rationale for not doing buddy breathing today with octos everywhere - it did add a level of comfort in the water - you practiced just waiting for air mid water with no reg in your mouth - no panic, no hurry. No air but lots of time to wait for it. Generated a level of comfort with no reg in your mouth that most divers just don't have any more.

You can last a very long time - solve problems - get to a buddy - get to the surface without panicking once you have that kind of training and practice.

I don't recall any of the "hazing" kind of thing, but I just don't remember one way or the other. More than normal level of comfort in and under the water at the time so such things would not have been significant or memorable. Would have just been part of the training.

However I am not sure I would call it "hazing". Hazing has a meaning to me that includes some kind of humiliation or degradation that would put it beyond simulating OOA or knocking a mask off. Something designed to test your ability to respond to an emergency doesn't quite qualify for the term any more. Perhaps the meaning of the word has shifted.

I think I agree with Lynne here. With the right supervision, and support I would rather have my first surprise mask removal to happen where if I failed the test there was someone a few feet away making sure that I survive. Not sure how you benefit from having this happen the first time in open water with no instructor around to assist in recovery if you screw it up. We know it will happen to everyone so why not have it happen in a controlled environment.

OOA is a bit different as I supect you can go an entire lifetime diving without going OOA. However if I were prone to panic it would be better to find out by having an instructor turn off my air as a surprise and be there to ensure I was safe than to have it happen at 100' with an instabuddy.

 

[TSandM]

First off, I think hazing is the wrong word, because of the connotations it has of gratuitious harassment. And the "hazing" activities of the instructors teaching advanced diving classes are often quite thoughtfully arranged. (Someone in another thread used the phrase "opportunistic facilitator" of stress scenarios.) I agree that swimming around at random yanking masks off people is probably not productive. But I also think that having my mask pulled off in the middle of accomplishing an air share, or turning off a valve, taught me to complete those tasks calmly, even in the face of one of my worst issues.

I think it was GDI who just wrote a great little essay about prioritization and multi-tasking. And there is a wonderful thread by Diver0001 (who, sadly, is seldom among us these days) about managing task loading. The bottom line is that one must have the ability to assess a situation where there are multiple issues, decide what is time-critical and what can wait, and how to martial one's resources most efficiently to handle things in the correct order.

I believe one's flexibility and adaptability is tested by the "hazing" scenarios in a controlled setting where the risk is minimized, and I think this is useful.

And maybe my medical training does play a role, but surgical residency, although it has its hazing components, does not make use of them in patient care settings.

 

[Darnold9999]

For me, personally, there is very little that compares to the comfort level I experience in water that has come directly from my freedive training and the confidence of an extended breath-hold. As silly as it may sound to some, maybe even most, simple freedive training affords the diver a greater comfort level in the water and, I truly believe, with enough training the possibility of diverting away from a panic-induced tragedy.

Totally agree with this. As a kid I spent an enourmous amount of time in the water. Much of it under the water holding my breath looking at stuff. No formal training, but lots and lots of time simply diving down and looking at stuff. In a pool trying to see how far I could swim on a single breath. Swiming on the surface was just boring.

I thnk it just makes you less prone to panic. You have been there (below the surface) with no air before and know you can get back from a very long way down.

 

[littleleemur]

Totally agree with this. As a kid I spent an enourmous amount of time in the water. Much of it under the water holding my breath looking at stuff. No formal training, but lots and lots of time simply diving down and looking at stuff. In a pool trying to see how far I could swim on a single breath. Swiming on the surface was just boring.

I thnk it just makes you less prone to panic. You have been there (below the surface) with no air before and know you can get back from a very long way down.

Which would beg the question "why do they tell you swimming proficiency is *not* a factor in learning how to dive?" I really wouldn't want to be near anyone who wasn't comfortable in the water and what on earth are they doing in scuba anyways?

 

[Papa_Bear]

Which would beg the question "why do they tell you swimming proficiency is *not* a factor in learning how to dive?" I really wouldn't want to be near anyone who wasn't comfortable in the water and what on earth are they doing in scuba anyways?

I agree 100%! It is part of the RSO's annual qualifications! 500 yards timed! All a part of being comfortable and proficient in the water!

 

[grazie42]

I agree that "good" training should push you past your comfortzone. The training Thassalamania describes doesen´t seem to ever get too close to the students "panic threshold" but does gradually make them comfortable, where they weren´t before...

Hazing, to me, has no place in serious training. Harassment does, because it is a useful teaching tool that affords students the oppurtunity to experience "real" emergencies in safe conditions and, if constructed correctly, provokes learning that wouldn´t take place otherwise...

Having said that, I think that having your students get very close to their "panic threshold", is playing with fire unless you really know what you´re doing...TBH I don´t think it has any place in anything but advanced training like dm/instructor, cave, wreck, ice or deco where the consequences of failiure are serious enough to warrant the risk and the resources needed to do it safely...

I´ve seen people panic, both in diving and other contexts, and they are never the same afterwards. Some will work their a**es off to try to regain what they lost of themselves in that "moment" while others will avoid ever getting near that situation again...what seems to be true of both "categories" are that they are permanently weakened by the experience and I don´t think that the benefits of getting (too)close to panic ever outweighs the risk...The only problem for the fascilitator is to know when close becomes too close and it´s a job I don´t envy...