Please tell me who started calling those by that name and also please link or show us a 30 year old one?
Thoughts on the primary donate debate
- Thread starter Gerbs
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Please tell me who started calling those by that name and also please link or show us a 30 year old one?
FishOutUvH2O
Contributor
1. Scubapro released the Air2 in 1979.Please tell me who started calling those by that name and also please link or show us a 30 year old one?
2. I don't know who coined the term safe-second, since I've never seen it bolded like that. If you don't like them, to bad, they're out there.
3. Try researching.
Here, have a :banana:with your popcorn. Maybe something healthier will help you think straight.
Safe-Second sounds very PADI'ish. But it's hard to tell - I first heard them called that in 1985 when getting a PADI OW cert.
Personally, I cannot fathom the resistance to donation of the primary or the reasons why anyone would not train a diver to do that, or at least train them to deal with the possibility of getting their primary stolen by a semi-panicked OOA diver.
I also have problems understanding the resistance to a 5' long primary hose for recreational diving.
I cannot fathom the unreasonable fear that a panicked OOA diver is going to drag you to the surface by your long hose. Worst case, 1) I just dump wing and let them claw us both to the surface at a nice normal ascent rate. If 2) I want to be proactive, I have enough freedom of movement on a long hose to get around back of the diver, ride his tank and control his buoyancy all while being out of range of his clawing hands and kicking feet. If 3) I am in crabby mood, I just give the hose nice sharp tug and pop the reg out of their mouth, then we do it over again my way.
1 and 2 work well together, you dump to slow his ascent, let him get above you a bit, then you just pivot 180 degrees so you are facing in the same direction and then just swim and/or climb the hose or the diver to get behind him.
The reality however is that a second stage on the end of a 5'-7' hose feels very secure and has an amazing calming influence on the OOA diver, so no of the bolt for the surface scenarios above are unlikely to happen.
Compare that with a panicked diver on the end of a 22" to 36" primary or octo hose trying to claw his way to the surface and in the process removing your mask interfering with your efforts to control buouyancy, etc. I is the definition of CF and creates a high risk situtation for the donor and OOA diver that has no doubt been the source of several multiple fatalities. Yet most instructors and agencies insist on sticking with the "dontate a short hose octo" approach, based on what I can only surmise is dogma, ignorance, or a lack of critical thinking skills.
Personally, I cannot fathom the resistance to donation of the primary or the reasons why anyone would not train a diver to do that, or at least train them to deal with the possibility of getting their primary stolen by a semi-panicked OOA diver.
I also have problems understanding the resistance to a 5' long primary hose for recreational diving.
I cannot fathom the unreasonable fear that a panicked OOA diver is going to drag you to the surface by your long hose. Worst case, 1) I just dump wing and let them claw us both to the surface at a nice normal ascent rate. If 2) I want to be proactive, I have enough freedom of movement on a long hose to get around back of the diver, ride his tank and control his buoyancy all while being out of range of his clawing hands and kicking feet. If 3) I am in crabby mood, I just give the hose nice sharp tug and pop the reg out of their mouth, then we do it over again my way.
1 and 2 work well together, you dump to slow his ascent, let him get above you a bit, then you just pivot 180 degrees so you are facing in the same direction and then just swim and/or climb the hose or the diver to get behind him.
The reality however is that a second stage on the end of a 5'-7' hose feels very secure and has an amazing calming influence on the OOA diver, so no of the bolt for the surface scenarios above are unlikely to happen.
Compare that with a panicked diver on the end of a 22" to 36" primary or octo hose trying to claw his way to the surface and in the process removing your mask interfering with your efforts to control buouyancy, etc. I is the definition of CF and creates a high risk situtation for the donor and OOA diver that has no doubt been the source of several multiple fatalities. Yet most instructors and agencies insist on sticking with the "dontate a short hose octo" approach, based on what I can only surmise is dogma, ignorance, or a lack of critical thinking skills.
lamont
Contributor
In a silt out in a cave, "primary take" on the long hose config is going to be substantially more reliable than anything else. In that situation you are limited and unable to signal, so you have to find a working regulator, and you can reliably find the regulator in your buddies mouth by finding their hand on the line, going up their arm and finding their head. The procedure is then to tug on the regulator rather than immediately ripping it out of their mouth with no warning.
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