Thoughts on the "new" razor 2

[Karl_H]

Have you considered a combination of both? I’d say the Razor harness is much better hands down than the Stealth, however the Stealth bladder is much better than the Razor BAT wing.

The highlight of the Stealth harness is the weighting system, otherwise the harness isn’t so great – there’s a lot of potential failure points from so many joins and connections while the movable rubber d-rings aren’t particularly useful in all honesty and are best replaced with regular d-rings. The Razor harness is very efficient and has minimal failure points, at the end of the day the only harnesses that come close to the Razor are those that have blatantly copied it!

The bladder on the standard Razor 2 harness has some problems with air gathering in the centre, if they can add some baffles to the next generation razor harness this would be a massive improvement, however for regular giving the BC on the Stealth is very streamline and doesn’t stick out much if mounted on the outer bungee attachment points. The Razor wing does have a big advantage of coming with a back-up bladder in the wing, however if you really need a lot of lift on a back-up wing the oral inflation isn’t the easiest thing to inflate – especially with the standard mouthpiece. I changed the mouthpiece on my Razor 2 for the mouthpiece that came with the MSR bag used with a Razor 1 – this mouth piece has a ‘open/close’ switch which make inflation much easier (although far from ‘easy&#8217. The stealth BC does need a bit more playing around to attach, it has three bungee connections as opposed to the 1 required for the Razor BAT wing.

If you are planning on diving dry and need a lot of weight the stealth weighting system is hard to beat, although it’s not difficult to make a similar modification to a razor harness using a parts from a soft weightbelt. I’d say both harnesses were far superior to the SMS50 so you should be very happy with either.

Karl

 

[piotr_c]

The highlight of the Stealth harness is the weighting system, otherwise the harness isn’t so great – there’s a lot of potential failure points from so many

Of course it's a selection between quickly adjustable multi part harness vs single part harness which needs much more time to adjust. Everyone should decide what he preffer. But have you heard if any of STEALTH 2.0 had a failure?

In STEALTH 2.0 webbing is divided for three parts for two reasons: 1. when you adjust the shoulder straps you don't need to adjust the waist strap at the same time. 2. All parts can be made from different kind of webbing, so the shoulder straps are soft for better comfort and the waist strap is stiff to provide better stability of the cylinder mounting points.

while the movable rubber d-rings aren’t particularly useful in all honesty and are best replaced with regular d-rings.

Some love it, some says it's not useful. But you don't need to use them, as they are third mounting points. The other two mounting points are located in the same place as in Razor.

 

[Johanan]

May be you should check out the Diamond? This is what a distinguished sidemount instructor from UK said:

"I have used both rigs so far [Stealth and Razor] and others that people ask me to promote. The Diamond wins every time, not just for its CE rating but also on price, usablity, functionality, and purpose.

X Deep ... has the weight system is in the wrong place! Too much weigh along your spine causes backache and poor profile positioning, the bladder is like a horizontal buoy on your back when inflated. But its cheaper and people like that.

Razor 2 is very good but very expensive, too hard webbing cutting through suits at the groin, Batwing is like a baloon on your back when inflated, seperate D rings involve over conscious though of trim of cylinders and can look very daft when one forgets to reposition them."

Hollis SMS50 is a very nice piece of kit, but too small for 70% of divers to hold bouyancy for their cylinders, over engineered with little foresight in where to put weights, so people add trim pockets and put them in the wrong place.

Diamond is perfect !! no need for the weight harness accessory, as the block weights fit perfectly on the harness and in the right place! Perfect sizing of wings for different sized divers and streamlined wing of course. It also has a sliding D ring taking care of out of trim cylinders. Absolutely, the Diamond is the rig to have, it's ingenious!. The pictures advertised only show the manufactures setup. I address this by configuring the whole rig to suit each individual diver which includes repositioning the inflator hose from the top to the side flange, then the blank is repositioned to the top.​

 

[CWSWine]

The Diamond looks like a copy of the UTD Z-Trim Device

 

[piotr_c]

"X Deep ... has the weight system is in the wrong place! Too much weigh along your spine causes backache and poor profile positioning, the bladder is like a horizontal buoy on your back when inflated. But its cheaper and people like that."

I'm just wondering how he can in the same time criticize Stealth for weight system and glorify Diamond, when Diamond's weight system utilizes similar idea of the weight system as Stealth 2.0?


Stealth 2.0 weight system:

Diamond weight system:

Not to mention, in Stealth 2.0 user can precisely adjust the central weight pocket and place the trim pockets everywhere while in Diamond they are in fixed.


For opinion from real Stealth 2.0 users I advise visiting Stealth 2.0 facebook group: http://www.facebook.com/groups/443899082296325/

 

[Johanan]

I'm just wondering how he can in the same time criticize Stealth for weight system and glorify Diamond, when Diamond's weight system utilizes similar idea of the weight system as Stealth 2.0?

Well... My first car was a Soviet made Lada. My second car was a Mercedes Benz. Both utilized similar ideas, but there was a clear difference... I don't try to bash the Stealth or any other rig. I really cannot make a judgement having not tried them. But I quoted an acomplished and respected SM instructor who has used them all. Perhaps it's not the final truth, yet proposes one more choice to consider.

 

[piotr_c]

Right. Every gear has a lot of opinions Fortunately not all of them are anonymous

Xdeep Stealth 2.0 Sidemount rig review
After using a Diverite nomad XT and also a custom Cave harness for my cave and sidemount diving, I came to the conclusion that ideally I wanted a rig set up that would fulfil all my needs in one.
A major criteria that ideally I needed to fulfil was it to be CE approved due to me teaching various courses in sidemount configuration, after doing a bit of research I came to the conclusion that the Xdeep Stealth 2.0 may fit the bill.
A few calls where made to a friendly dealer ( Divelife, Manchester ) and a day or two later a box arrived at my door, all excited the package was opened.
The kit includes a complete harness system and an extremely low profile 36lb lift wing/bladder, plus some various hardware and bungee, it also includes a fairly comprehensive set up manual.
First impressions was nice quality, a bit of setting up is required but nothing to taxing, anyway it is a good excuse to see how it was made and gave me chance to give it a good inspection. One good thing about the assembly is that it gives you a chance to get it set up for you or there about’s to start with.
One really nice feature is the rear spine weight system which is pre fitted to the centre of the harness at the rear, a very clever and neat system that allows you to fit 8kg of lead if needed, the position of the weight spine can also be adjusted to suit the diver. Also there is a a pair of trim weight pockets that can go in various positions but I chose on the waist belt, these can also carry 2kg in each.
There is also some adjustable rubber D rings on the waist belt which allow for adjustment on the move, ideal for when using Ali cylinders. Also included is a plate with bungees that fixes to the rear of the crotch strap for carrying of your main battery pack for your primary light.
The wing is a very low profile design with a lower central dump valve and a side mounted low pressure inflator and hose, which gives an impressive 36lb of lift, more than ample for sidemount diving, this fits to you separately to allow fine adjustment of where you need buoyancy by means of bungees and snap bolt clips.
So after assembly off to open water we went to try it out, first impressions when putting it on was it just needed a few minor adjustments here and there to make it fit correctly, ie adjusting the bungee lengths which hold the wing on and shoulder strap lengths etc.
In the water the kit performed well was nice and comfortable, neatly streamlined and carried the cylinders in the correct position, one thing I did on the day was to give a few people a try dive in the kit, the ease at which it is adjustable to fit other people was simplicity in itself and instead of taking an age to adjust, it was a matter of maybe a minute or two at most, I think after this test that this is the ideal rig for sidemount diving , it is also an ideal choice for instructors due to its simplicity in adjustment, all in all a real well made piece of kit.
Are there any problems with it at all, well just a small niggle, the pull dump at the rear is fitted with a silly small plastic knob (as per most wings), that is difficult to find made even worse when wearing dry gloves in UK winter conditions, But this is easily sorted by a simple replacement with a larger diameter plastic pull ball, ie like the ones fitted on dumps by AP, I am also going to fit a couple of extra SS D-rings to the waist strap.
Overall conclusion is this is a well thought out and extremely well made piece of kit, it will be the rig of my choice for in the caves and my types of sidemounting, would I recommend it, oh yes in fact I’m going to order a couple more to put students in.
Available and in stock from DiveLife , Manchester ( the UKs most comprehensive dive store )
Review by Wayne Allen, Trimix Instructor

 

[Colliam7]

Have you considered a combination of both? I’d say the Razor harness is much better hands down than the Stealth, however the Stealth bladder is much better than the Razor BAT wing. . . . The highlight of the Stealth harness is the weighting system

Karl, glad you posted this. In looking at it 'on paper' or 'on screen', the weighting system looks cool. You are right, it appears one could be made from some spare parts, particularly webbing and velcro. But, for the price ($99 USD) it might be worth a flutter. How is the central weight pocket attached to the harness? It looks like there are grommets, top and bottom, so I assume SS 'sex bolts'. Is that correct? And, if so, what is the length between the grommet holes? I am wondring if I can use the central pocket with a Transpac (Nomad).

 

[Johanan]

Right. Every gear has a lot of opinions Fortunately not all of them are anonymous

Anonymous - that is my fault. He wrote it to me in a private mail when I signed up for his course and we discussed different rigs. I didn't ask his permission to put this in a public site, therefore I didn't mention his name. But he's quite a name, trust me. BTW, I almost ordered a Stealth 2 + Apeks regulator set in a Polish store.

 

[piotr_cc]

How is the central weight pocket attached to the harness? It looks like there are grommets, top and bottom, so I assume SS 'sex bolts'.

Here's the big size image:

http://www.xdeep.eu/side-mount-central-weight-pocket-pr-17.html