Thoughts on the DIR III Video.

[Lost Yooper]

That's cool, Mike. I've seen so many people say that new students can't handle back inflation . Of course, most of them haven't used back inflation or aren't instructors. I've talked to many instructors who teach OW students with wings/harness, and they don't seem to have any problem either.

Do you have them breathing a longer hose?

Mike

 

[MikeFerrara]

LY,

If they are properly weighted and the wing is not over inflated they do not get shoved on their face. Add a plate and they are really in good shape because more of the weight is where it is needed. However we want them horizontal and stable while diving and back inflation is the best for that. We are currently using a 24 inch hose for the alternate and an octo length (40 inch I think) for the primary. We will probably go to a 5 ft primary eventually. The issue is that some do not buy equipment right away (if at all). Their first diving may be rented equipment while on vacation. I must prepare them for that. For instance lots of rental stuff doesn't provide any way of securing the alternate and gauges. I suggest that they carry a piece of bungie or tubing and put the alt around the neck or at the very least secure it in the most sensible place given the type of equipment. Even if the hose is a little long it's better than having it dangle. I also explain that some alternates they rent may be marginal at best. We are still refining. It's abalancing act. We try to teach what we feel is the best way but many are really paying to be prepared for their vacation. We try to do both. When asked how I configure Caribbean rental equipment to make due I also explain that I personally would not get in such a situation. We also demonstrate air sharing with a seven foot hose both single file touch contact (cave style) and side by side. This way they see how much easier it is than diving while being tied to someone by a short hose. When teaching in open water I use bp/wing, single tank with an H valve and a seven foot primary. Very slick setup (just like the Halcyon catalog pictures) its like wearing nothing. Many on this board have stated that they don't feel an open water instructor can be effective teaching in such equipment. But..if I don't take my advice who will?

 

[Lost Yooper]

Good job, Mike. I'll bet there are many who wish they had gotten trained by you (or someone like you) right off the bat. Woulda saved me a ton, fer shur!

Keep up the good work.

Mike

 

[landlocked]

I just wanted to thank Mike and LY for thier input. Personnally, I prefer a back inflate and my next BC will probably be a bp/wings config. I will probably move to the long hose and bungied second at that time. (Yea, I know, I'm a trouble maker.) But then, my kit isn't available for rent and I have been in the water just enough that I can recognize the fact that back inflation works better. I just thought that there were a couple of points that were being overlooked in the video. Thanks again.

 

[Airhog]

This is my first post to this board after reading for a while. I must say that are you sure this scubaboard and not Stroke board?


I am so sorry--But I understand the mentatlity of is it works why should I change it. But jesus, as a previous poster said, there are ways to do things and then there are better ways to do things..... i thought I would keel over when the one poster said that they enjoyed the feeling of the vest BC compressing around their middle. You are an accident waiting to happen, and I will refer to you in the future. Why in gods blue water do you want to compress your built in breathing equipment? You are restricting your lungs and not allowing the full exstention of your rib cavity for breathing---Have a great sqeeze, stroke.

The other poster who said that "I do not allow my gauges/console to dangle" what do you do? Clip it off or stuff in a pocket? I surely do not have time to waste for you to dig it out of a pocket to read or for you r un clip or retract it to tell me what I need to know about your air/gas situation.

If you have it clipped, than great!!! You are enlarging your underwater profile, therefore, increasing your air consumption and drag through the water. Therefore----You are not efficient as you could be.

I have never known anyone in all of my life who ever dove a bp and harness, after diving a convential jacket, back inflate or not, that did not stick with the BP and harness.

Please tell me that this is not the normal thinking around this board.... jezz--Let's leave gear out of it and talk about the pretty fishes............

 

[landlocked]

I take it you are a DIR advocate? Since you are new, we will overlook a couple of mistakes. Lets go one at a time.

Originally posted by Airhog
This is my first post to this board after reading for a while. I must say that are you sure this scubaboard and not Stroke board?

We don't use the "S" word in a deragatory way. Bad form you know.

Originally posted by Airhog
But jesus,....Why in gods blue water ....etc.

There are several folkes on the board that take a great deal of offense at anyone using the Lord's name in vain.

Originally posted by Airhog
when the one poster said that they enjoyed the feeling of the vest BC compressing around their middle. You are.....

I think that you missed the point.

Originally posted by Airhog
The other poster who said that "I do not allow my gauges/console to dangle" what do you do?

I clip it.

Originally posted by Airhog
You are enlarging your underwater profile, therefore, increasing your air consumption and drag through the water. Therefore----You are not efficient as you could be.

Yeah, your right. Guess I had better quit diving until I just happen to find an extra 6 or 7 hundred laying around plus the money for training. No sense enjoying diving unless I am as efficient as possible. Just curious, where is your SPG. Probably, in the same place as mine. So isn't the real question... does your 7 foot primary cause as much extra drag as my 4 foot octo? Is that extra drag meaningful to my recreational diving? Is that a decision you want to make for me?

Originally posted by Airhog
--Have a great sqeeze, stroke.

See the first point mentioned above. Very bad form. It is comments like this that have given a great method of diving a bad name. When you think about it, isn't that bad for everyone?

Originally posted by Airhog
I have never known anyone in all of my life who ever dove a bp and harness, after diving a convential jacket, back inflate or not, that did not stick with the BP and harness.

There has been one member of the board who went back, three times in one week I think, but we won't go there. You win the point.

Originally posted by Airhog
Please tell me that this is not the normal thinking around this board.... .

Last I saw, a little less than 2 percent of the board are currently diving DIR. You can draw your own conclusions from that. (I believe that is somewhat representative of the diving world at large.)

Originally posted by Airhog
jezz--Let's leave gear out of it and talk about the pretty fishes.............

Perhaps, until you get past the brain washing you should. In fact, the whole point of this post has been to suggest that there is an element of false representation or brain washing in the DIR III video. (That comment in no way is meant to denigrate the superior system and training.) Thank you for making the point so eloquently. I was really afraid that no one was going to take the bait.
With that said, the video, LY and UP have convinced me that DIR is the way that I want to go as I move forward. The computer will go on the left wrist, (yeah... I know), the compass on the right. Future training will include DIR Fundamentals. The octo config will change. But I will never fault others for diving twice a year and compensating for a lack of comfort in their diving by wearing a life jacket instead of a BP/Wing.

OK, last question. Air Hog, are you real, or are you a long time member of the board doing a little trolling?

 

[UncleJT]

I wish MikeFerrara was my OW instructor. His store is 2 hours from me. My local store has me in all kinds of rental crap, jacket BC, that I do not feel secure in at all and is really uncomfortable to use.

Oh well, I just need to deal with it til I get certified I guess.

- JT

 

[Uncle Pug]

JT... it is only two hours... make the effort bud...

BTW Mike... there is an LDS here in the PNW that starts the OW students in bp/wings and by the time they are done with OW they have the equivalent of OW plus DIRF...

Airhog... work on your SAC stroke!

 

[Airhog]

Originally posted by landlocked
I take it you are a DIR advocate? Since you are new, we will overlook a couple of mistakes. Lets go one at a time.

We don't use the "S" word in a deragatory way. Bad form you know.
There are several folkes on the board that take a great deal of offense at anyone using the Lord's name in vain.
I think that you missed the point.

I clip it.

Yeah, your right. Guess I had better quit diving until I just happen to find an extra 6 or 7 hundred laying around plus the money for training. No sense enjoying diving unless I am as efficient as possible. Just curious, where is your SPG. Probably, in the same place as mine. So isn't the real question... does your 7 foot primary cause as much extra drag as my 4 foot octo? Is that extra drag meaningful to my recreational diving? Is that a decision you want to make for me?
See the first point mentioned above. Very bad form. It is comments like this that have given a great method of diving a bad name. When you think about it, isn't that bad for everyone?

There has been one member of the board who went back, three times in one week I think, but we won't go there. You win the point.

Last I saw, a little less than 2 percent of the board are currently diving DIR. You can draw your own conclusions from that. (I believe that is somewhat representative of the diving world at large.)
Perhaps, until you get past the brain washing you should. In fact, the whole point of this post has been to suggest that there is an element of false representation or brain washing in the DIR III video. (That comment in no way is meant to denigrate the superior system and training.) Thank you for making the point so eloquently. I was really afraid that no one was going to take the bait.
With that said, the video, LY and UP have convinced me that DIR is the way that I want to go as I move forward. The computer will go on the left wrist, (yeah... I know), the compass on the right. Future training will include DIR Fundamentals. The octo config will change. But I will never fault others for diving twice a year and compensating for a lack of comfort in their diving by wearing a life jacket instead of a BP/Wing.

OK, last question. Air Hog, are you real, or are you a long time member of the board doing a little trolling?

Let's see where to begin...... I do not know how to do the fancy one quote at a time thing so here goes...
1. Not fully DIR yet, still got a little stroke in me
2. Sorry--Jesus forgives, bad diving habits do not.....
3. Original quote: "It's nice to have the jacket squeeze and be able to feel the bladder under my elbows.. I know just how much air I have and whether I can put more or not."

OH MY GOD......So you agree that wrapping an inflated airbag around your ribs, compressing them further under pressure underwater is ok to do and not dangerous?-- Sorry---This screams STROKE!

4. Several try to follow--Clip it-Where? I dive 5 foot hose as recommended for Recreational diving. I sometime clip my SPG to my left hip D-ring and sometimes to my left shoulder D-ring. This depends on which of my buddies I am diving with. One of them believes that all hand movements are wasteful in regards to energy/air wasted. By clipping to our shoulder D-rings, we can turn our heads and do quick visual checks for air status.....I do not know, never seen your octo. Probably my setup has less drag. Is that bad for your recreational diving? probably not, unless younot getting your maximum bottom time. If you are, than more power to you,just do not get snagged......and I hope you are clipping it off too or have it squared away where it can be rapidily deployed....No, I do not want to make this decision for you...unless we are diving together... Why do you need an extra $600 or $700 dollars? Please do not go down the road with me that DIR is more exspensive. It is life support and I could buy the current DIR rig I have now for over $400 less than what I wasted awy in my first OW setup. Loose the computer and buy a bottom timer(But you knew that....)

5. I already addressed the inflated life jacket of death-----
6. I shoot, I score!!!!!!!!
7. Hardly brain washed. I was a very loud opponent of it until I dove it. When I dove the gear, I also got a good shot of the attitude and mindset. Which, along with the physical fitness part of it are the top three components in my opinion. The gear is fourth.
8. I lurked for a several months on and off again. Finally registered about a month ago...What's wrong with a little trolling anyway Sorry ahead of time for the typos...I tend to think faster than I type and forget faster than I think so I am prone to mixing up or omitting letters.. But I am sure those of you who actually know how to dive tables can figure out my intent...(cheap shot......comes in swinging, )

 

[MikeFerrara]

We're working towards bp/wing for OW students but we have to pace those expenses. We're getting there. One of the biggest equipment related problems new divers have is the whole rig shifting around on them. It makes things more difficult both at the surface and at depth. In time new divers learn to deal with it (sort of) but what a wast of time.