Thoughts on the DIR III Video.

[landlocked]

http://realsrv.dir-slovenia.com:8080/ramgen/DIRIII.rm

LY, alias Mike shared the above link on a seperate thread. I watched it and found it extremely interesting. At the end there is some footage of some very extreme cave diving. Very intense stuff. I thought that it would be fun to have some input on impressions after watching the video. Personnally, I have one comment and two questions. Comment: My gauges and oct don't drag. I was taught in OW to keep them from doing that. Questions: 1) If jacket style BC's are so bad, why are there so many? and 2) If the standard reg/octo configuration is so infereior, why do the big three cert agencies teach it?

The video is awsome. Thanks again LY for sharing the link with us.

 

[Lost Yooper]

There is gear and configurations that work, and gear and configurations that work better. I think agencies tend to do things the fastest and easiest route possible.

Motives can say a lot.

Mike

 

[landlocked]

Having thought about my own questions for the last couple of days, I have a different answer. So, if I can be allowed to answer my own questions..... I think that a jacket style BC is the BEST solution for a brand new diver. The first few times in the water the main function of the BC is to provide a security blanket to the diver. Sort of a combination BC/Life Jacket. I think that the last thing that a new diver needs to confront is being thrown face down in the water every time he/she surfaces. There is enough new stuff without adding proper trim weight configurations to the mix. Second point. If I, being a rather large man, were to borrow a BP/wings setup from someone thinner, how long does it take to adjust the webbing. (Once you have yours set just right for you do you want me messing with it?) This bring up the point of rental gear. Adjustable straps do have their place. I think that the gentelmen in the video have been great divers for so long that they have lost track of recreational or occasional diving. Their statements concerning gear and what rec divers need and should be doing are often invalid outside of the tek community. An argument in point is what I have decided is a miss-representation of hose/octo configurations. It doesn't add up if you think about it in rec terms and in reference to what I was taught in OW vs. what they say that I was taught (e.g., I was taught to donate air from the mouth not from the octo.) Anyway, why are there so many jacket style BC's? Because for inexperienced divers, they are the best choice. And, like it or not, there are a lot of inexperienced divers out there. Why do the big agencies teach the common octo config? Because for OW rec diving it is the best. Things only change to favor DIR hose configurations in light of overhead environments. Think about it.

With all that said, I was really impressed with the BP/wings demo! However, the arrogant gentelmen doing the video are out of touch with main stream diving. (I purposely worded this to get some response. Any takers?)

 

[Lost Yooper]

Your reaction is typical of those of haven't used a BP/wing setup. Things aren't always the way they appear.

Mike

 

[chuckrt]

I downloaded and watched the clip for the total time. I felt that there were some very good things and some that I would like to try such as the wings but I am unable to finance a whole nother set of gear just for this. I have purchased a dry suit this spring and that is about all I can do now considering the season is on us. I have also purchased a set of back up gauges and I have no intention of giving up my computer,sorry UP.

I was taught that the way he put his gear on by swinging it over his head was more likely to hit someone else while on a boat or in a close environment.

I have kept this download on file for further use and review and sincerly hope that I have not stepped on any ones feelings.

time to get wet

chuckrt

 

[jonnythan]

I totally have to agree with landlocked.

Yoop, can you honestly say that adjusting a BP/wings setup is as easy as "here's a medium, put it on, pull the shoulder straps and you're set"?

My OW class was only a year ago... I honestly feel that if I was even given my weight integrated back inflate, I would have been far less happy. It's nice to have the jacket squeeze and be able to feel the bladder under my elbows.. I know just how much air I have and whether I can put more or not.

We also did a lot of stnading on our knees in the pool while doing skills. This would have been far more challenging for a first time diver with a back inflate that's "optimal for belly down" and "sucks for photography" where you stay upright a lot.

I think jackets are far more suited to rentals and OW training than back inflates and BP/wings.

If you've read my posts you'll know I certainly believe BP/wings with long hoses are without question the *best* SCUBA setup. A low volume slicy boat is the *best* vehicle for kayak rodeo, but that doesn't mean beginners should use that boat. A more sluggish, forgiving boat is the best idea for someone who kayaks twice a year.

I completely agree with landlocked and think the *first time in the water* diver or the *twice a year* diver are far more suited to the jacket style BC, which does not require any subtle balancing, does not require much attention to proper weight positioning, etc. We all know how horrible these things are, but the first time divers would only be frustrated and task loaded.

Every year my SCUBA club has a "sink or swim" where we let non-divers accompany some AOW certified divers into the 15' end of the pool after 10 minutes of basic instruction in the shallow end. This drums up a great deal of support for our club, and I've no doubt many would be turned off if they also had to deal with a back inflate BC.

 

[Lost Yooper]

Yeah, OK. Perhaps someday, when you've been around the block a few times, you'll understand how seriously misinformed you are. Yoos guyz crack me up, eh! You win.



Mike

 

[trymixdiver]

i watched the vid today

It was informative but i felt most of what was discussed would be considered common knowlege for the DIR crowd. Dont get me wrong, i enjoyed it, but its not really anything more than the DIRF book on video. If your just getting into, or contimplating tech diving then this is a good tool.

Inregards to jasket style vs. backplate wings. I think to have an opinion on both you first have to dive both. once i tried a backpack and wings setup, there was turning back. Theres no comparision in my opinion, backplate and harness systems are the ticket.

Andy

 

[tombiowami]

You guys are treating moving straps for fit like it is some type of rocket science. I was trained as most in a jacket BC, switched to bp/wings quickly and found the bp much easier to dive.

If moving straps is too hard for you, should you really be expected to understand nitrogen intake/dive tables? One of the ideas in DIR is not not fix something that does not need fixing by adding another failure point. No, I have never seen the fastex buckles break, but why add them?

I don't understand advocating learning poor skills at first, why not just learn the best way first time out?

On the rec comment on the DIR video, those guys have probaby done more rec dives than all of use combined. It is a common misconception.

The real reason there are more jacket bcs is capitalism. How many purple bps are out there? I am a strong capitalist, don't get me wrong, but it gives the people what they want, not necessarily what they need.

How many low fat salads does McDonalds sell compared to BigMacs I wonder?

Tommy

 

[MikeFerrara]

Kind of short on time so I'll make it short. I train alot of open water divers. We are not YET puting them in a bp but we use back inflation bcs' and the alternate goes on a shorter hose and is secured around the neck. It all works great. I tell them the kind of disfunctional junk that they will rent so they are not surprised. There will never be a rental jacket in my pool or will a student of mine have his alt or gauges dragging the bottom. And no student of mine will surface with his buoyancy control in his teeth because some joker put his second reg there.