Thinking of Moving to the Philippines!

[annasea]

Maybe he has a sister for your friend from Catalina!

We can only hope, my dear friend.

Alternatively, we can always pool our resources... :blinking:

 

[chip104]

Ok, I'll play.

Comments: You need to obey the laws and be courteous and respectful towards [-]filipinos[/-] people.

I fixed it for you since your statement really applies to anywhere you live in the world. More so in the PI since social support is very important (tribal by nature!).

I personally know of a German guy who was married to a filipina and owned a nice dive resort near Liloan. He got in a fight with a local filipino, and he hassled the snail diggers who dug in front of his resort. He was permanently expelled and blacklisted...

If NOT getting into fights is "best" behaviour, is your definition of getting into fights "normal" behaviour?

Another guy, an really good dive instructor, made a disparaging comment about his German employer. He was summarily fired and has not been able to find steady work since.

I see - so he bad mouthed his employer and got fired? You realize that this happens all over the world, right? An employee can even get fired if their facebook message status trash talks their company or employer.


You post is very informative, but the examples in your comments aren't very good. I do agree that you need to be a gentleman if you want to stay in the PI (nature of the Filipinos).

 

[chip104]

Yes, there is corruption. Yes, there is cronyism. Yes, there is inefficiency and frustrating beaurocracy. I still love it here.

Good overall post Andy. With regards to the quote, the Philippines does have all that, but I'm amazed at the amount of corruption, cronyism, and inefficiency and frustrating beaurocracy is happening in my neck of the woods.

Just my comment: As for the PI, what frustrates me the most is the top-down style management mentality that it has - more so at the large institutions (I'm looking at you Smart, Globe, and PLDT!). The lack of employee empowerment at the lower levels affects us the most since these are the people we mostly deal with. It's frustrating when a front line employee won't budge since he/she might get fired for a "risky" decision even when you've explained why something doesn't make sense. I'd love to see them take on more responsibility and allow them to think more for themselves.

All in all, I love the place, can't wait to get back for an extended period.

Tinytechie: look up surigao - up and coming dive industry and great surfing close by on Siargao.

Regardless, if you know of any Filipino gentlemen who are open-minded, flexible, adventurous, child-free, mentally and financially stable, and are open to a meaningful, long-term relationship, do let me know.

I'm flattered Anna, but I'm taken. :cool2:

 

[DevonDiver]

Just my comment: As for the PI, what frustrates me the most is the top-down style management mentality that it has - more so at the large institutions (I'm looking at you Smart, Globe, and PLDT!).

Oh yes... Globe. Gotta love them The overall level of understanding about 'customer service' amongst (at least) big corporations here in the PI is zero. I will stand up for myself with these people...usually speaking to a supervisor can help get things moving... but I do pity the 'average' customer that doesn't have the confidence to demand what they deserve.

I went to EMS today - to collect a parcel from Customs. THAT was an abject lesson in beauracracy and inefficiency. 2 hours, just to give a signature, show my passport and walk out with my package. I don't think one single member of staff there has ever been asked to give process feedback to the management. The only management I saw was sat at the back reading a newspaper. Still... I've got to smile... the staff were all smiling and friendly. I didn't get scammed or ripped-off... and the customs inspector (a lady) was charming and gave me some good advice.

2 hours... to do something that would literally take 10 minutes in Europe or the USA. But still... the Philippines is friendly....and I left smiling.

 

[annasea]

<snip>
I'm flattered Anna, but I'm taken. :cool2:

My loss.

You've got cousins, though, haven't you?

 

[wanderlass]

sift through this PRA: Philippine Retirement Authority

 

[slowhands]

So, basically, the guy was scammed from his lifetime investment and his wife stole everything he owned... and the local community, police and government did nothing to intervene or protect the man's legal rights. His bad deed was to "hassle local snail diggers"?

... It is also a gross exageration and does not reflect the reality here.

My friend, it is a fact. The German was deported permanently from the Philippines for the fight, but he was in general not well liked in the community for insults to the locals, such as the snail diggers. Once expelled, he could not control what happened to the resort he and his wife owned. The wife exploited that and leased the place. I was considering buying that resort in Liloan before the German's wife leased it to the Koreans. Now, as a result of that and many other experiences like that, I'm very gun shy of any investment here.

A would-be investor needs to be very aware of different laws and practices here.

In the Philippines, foreigners have few rights compared to those in the US or Europe. For example, a foreigner cannot own a residence or land personally. He can own jointly with his filipina wife, but has no right to sell it or pass it by inheritance. Alternatively he can use a corporation with 3 of 5 directors being filipinos, and satisfy burdensome annual reporting and tax requirements. That is just an example, meant to alert readers that the rules are very different in the Philippines and a potential investor or employee needs to fully understand them.

It's this sort of story that scares potential investors away from the Philippines, at all levels of commerce. Despite all its natural advantages, the Philippines is a waste-land for international investement when compared with other Asian nations, because of this sort of scare-mongering.

I am sure your story is inaccurate and stems from some personal issue, rather than an accurate recollection of a story. ....

My friend, again you are not correct. The dive instructor I mentioned lives in near Dauin with his filipina wife and 2 kids. He was fired from Dive Society, the Scuba shop at El Dorado in Dauin, about 3 years ago, and he has had it rough since then. I'm not going to name him in public, as he is a personal friend and a great dive instructor. But this story should warn anyone to be on his best behavior when working here if they want to remain employed and keep their visa.

... Ignore the scare stories from Slowhands. I don't know what his issue is, but he is very negative. ....
...

I'm sorry if that seems negative, it's reality. As you said: "the Philippines is a waste-land for international investement when compared with other Asian nations". Sadly I must agree.

There is an old joke: "You know how to make a million dollars in the Philippines? Invest 10 million." Obviously some individuals and companies are doing OK here, but there are many horror stories too. Check out the "Harry the Horse" blog for a monthly update on expat experiences in the Philippines:
Harry the Horse the man about town - Angeles City, Philippines Expat Monthly Newletter.
Check out the history of the dispute between the Philippine government and the builder of Manila Terminal 3:
Ninoy Aquino International Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't invent this stuff -- I don't have to. It's all over the web.

My original post was mainly about how to get a visa, listing info from several Philippine Govt sources. I ended with warnings to any potential applicant about laws and customs in the Philippines as they relate to visa holders I knew of. You can ignore them if you like and I wish you the best of luck.

At this moment, I am diving in Dauin, my third visit this year. I am in the process of selling my home in the US and planning to live in the Philippines permanently. So I have done a lot of research and talked to a lot of people about homes, businesses, and jobs here. My comments are from that perspective.

 

[Hank49]

I lived in the Philippines from 86 to 96 and than again for all of 1999. I was married to a Filipina and after a long, drawn out process, got my Permanent Residence status. We had to leave the country for 7 months and when we came back, my PR status wasn't valid anymore.
I love the place and have family and very good friends there.
But, I would advise anyone who is considering moving and investing there to just go there and hang out for a year....or two. If you're coming from the US, it's a very different social climate...?...I guess is a good word. I'm not saying it's better or worse. It's different and you would be wise to learn the ways of everyday life there.

 

[Tom Winters]

Good luck living there in the PI. I spent a lot of time there with the Navy, but I declined orders to be permanently stationed there for three years since I knew that I'd go local and wind up never leaving.
I wound up spending 22 years in Hawaii, but at least they had Costco.

 

[DevonDiver]

My friend, it is a fact. The German was deported permanently from the Philippines for the fight, but he was in general not well liked in the community for insults to the locals,...

I think that is a universal warning for any expat, not just in the Philippines. It must have been one hell of a fight if it resulted in deportation. I am guessing that it became a criminal matter?

'Insulting locals' is a one-way ticket to failure. I've seen expats who act like this and they normally get what they deserve. This is especially true in Asian countries, where a high priority is placed on politeness and maintaining 'face'.

If the individual concerned had a 'superiority complex', then I am sure his rudeness would also have been evident to those authorities that dealt with the repercussions of his 'fight'. If he was rude to the police, immigration etc... then they weren't likely to help him, were they?

I've had to adapt a lot since I moved to Asia. My choice of language, manner and communication skills had to evolve so that I fitted in with the culture of the country that I am a guest in. I am still learning. Nonetheless, for anyone who plans to visit or live in an Asian country - swearing, demeaning, embarrassing or strongly rebuking people is not 'the done thing'. It's a big behaviour shift from the US or European way of doing things.

Once expelled, he could not control what happened to the resort he and his wife owned. The wife exploited that and leased the place.

Can't blame the Philippines for that. Bad choice of wife. lol. Plenty of men, in plenty of countries get screwed over by their partners. It's nothing new

I think a problem can exist in less developed countries, because women are more prepared to marry for financial reasons. You've gotta pick your partner carefully and take things slowly.

I see a lot of expat man in Asia thinking with their balls... and rushing into marriage with the first young woman that blinks her eyelashes at them. Quite often they meet in a bar.... Do I need to elaborate?

A would-be investor needs to be very aware of different laws and practices here.

That's also true of any country. Only an idiot would invest in a foreign country without fully understanding the business laws and ethics pertaining to that place.

In the Philippines, foreigners have few rights compared to those in the US or Europe. For example, a foreigner cannot own a residence or land personally. He can own jointly with his filipina wife,.... That is just an example, meant to alert readers that the rules are very different in the Philippines and a potential investor or employee needs to fully understand them.

That's true of a lot of places. Thailand is the same... I know simular 'horror stories' of men who got screwed over by their wife and/or business partner there.

Your advice is sound..... understand the situation, understand the laws and understand the dangers. That said, it is unfair to demonize the Philippines simply because it is different than the USA.

My friend, again you are not correct. The dive instructor I mentioned lives in near Dauin with his filipina wife and 2 kids. He was fired from Dive Society,...and he has had it rough since then.

That could be true of any town/city/country in the world. Getting fired from a job, especially in a small community, is going to jeapordise your future prospects.

But this story should warn anyone to be on his best behavior when working here if they want to remain employed and keep their visa.

Expats who are a$$holes tend to fail. That's universal.

If someone is rude, arrogant, inflexible and violent (!), then they are best advised to stay at home in their own country.

In contrast, expats who are friendly, postitive, helpful, respectful and and flexible tend to enjoy a great deal of 'luck' when they move to a country like the Philippines.

The Philippines works very much on 'who you know, not what you know'. If you are rude to people ad alienate them, you'll become isolated and unsuccessful. If you make friends and do good things for people, then opportunities will arise.

I'm sorry if that seems negative, it's reality. As you said: "the Philippines is a waste-land for international investement when compared with other Asian nations". Sadly I must agree.

There are issues here that need to be understood. Corruption and cronyism is a problem here. It's the same in any developing country. That said, the Philippines is better than many developing countries that I have worked in. People can have short-term outlooks, which is confusing for westerners who will naturally appreciate the long-term issues first and foremost.


Too many Filippinos make assumptions about foreigners - the primary one being that we are all wealthy. Without any malignancy, they see us as an opportunity. It's a bad assumption and it causes resentment in many visitors to the Philippines, who only percieve it as 'being scammed or ripped off'. Personally... I understand why a taxi driver might want to charge me an extra 200 pesos for a journey etc etc . I don't like it, or agree with it, but that money is a huge bonus for them. It's a Christmas present for their child, who might not otherwise get one...

The assumption of wealthy foreigners hurts the expats most... because we are the ones working on local salaries or struggling to keep small businesses turning over. We aren't tourists on a $ salary with money to throw around ("Geez... it's SO cheap here!").

I've always found that building a relationship with local people is what makes the difference. When local people have understood my situation...and see me as an individual, not just as a stereotype foreigner ("Hey Joe"), then I noticed the scams...the over-pricing... the 'extra costs'... all ended.

Obviously some individuals and companies are doing OK here, but there are many horror stories too.

Again, that is universal. I'd say that Thailand was far worse.

Also... what makes every expat a talented entrepreneur? Lots of business fail. So what? That happens everywhere. People come here and open a resort, restaurant, bar or dive school....thinking it will be easy... with no experience in that industry, no management experience, no financial experience...and no business experience. Unsurprisingly, some of those businesses fail. Go figure?

My original post was mainly about how to get a visa, listing info from several Philippine Govt sources. I ended with warnings to any potential applicant about laws and customs in the Philippines as they relate to visa holders I knew of. You can ignore them if you like and I wish you the best of luck.

You phrase it better in this post

I'd echo that advice. It makes absolute sense to understand the laws and customs of any country that you sought to live and work in.

When in Rome....

I am in the process of selling my home in the US and planning to live in the Philippines permanently. So I have done a lot of research and talked to a lot of people about homes, businesses, and jobs here. My comments are from that perspective.

Which is off-topic (my apologies to the OP), but nonetheless an interesting debate.

But, I would advise anyone who is considering moving and investing there to just go there and hang out for a year....or two. If you're coming from the US, it's a very different social climate...?...I guess is a good word. I'm not saying it's better or worse. It's different and you would be wise to learn the ways of everyday life there.

Yep...100% agree.