Thinking of getting pickier on conditions

[dumpsterDiver]

So you were dependent on another group of recreational divers to perform a critical function, but this was never explicitly discussed prior to a technical dive which was initiated in challenging and deteriorating conditions. It seems like a vulnerable position to put yourself and a student in.. depending on other team(s) to perform a critical function on a recreational (i,e,. non-professional) dive to technical depths.

Again, I have no technical training, but it would seem like, a technical dive instructor would have recognized that there are many potential reasons why the team who normally pulls (disconnects) the ascent line might fail to do so, reasons ranging from emergencies to confusion to failure to communicate a task clearly etc. and that a planned response to this contingency would be clearly discussed and prepared prior to the dive and sufficient smb's and reels/spools would be carried exactly for this contingency. These are the types of issues which I think are critically important on an ocean dive with current, not something which would be so important in a small lake or quarry.

So why would a contingency plan not been developed for this completely foreseeable potential problem? Of course i would think this would be a major component of the dive briefing (which was omitted). In addition, i am curious what benefit was derived by having your student and yourself remain on the line in a strong current getting beat up and separated from other divers from the boat? Once you were aware they left the line and started a drifting deco, why would you intentionally facilitate a separation in the divers that, based on your understanding of the current velocity and duration of deco, would necessarily cause a huge and dangerous separation of the divers.. literally scattering people over a one mile swath of rough ocean? Why not just let go and drift and stay together with other divers who made that decision?

I am curious to understand the thinking in this situation. maybe I am missing something, since I don't have technical dive training?

 

[Bennno]

I am curious to understand the thinking in this situation. maybe I am missing something, since I don't have technical dive training?

Being tec trained or not doesn't matter in this situation (I assume you're aware of that)... generally, for good and experienced divers, there is not that much to learn in tec training anyways.
People that have a hard time in 'tec' training usually go into it too early, IMHO.

I know rec divers that are much better divers than many tec instructors I have seen.

 

[uncfnp]

Not tech dives and that might make the difference but for us and Florida, if the boat goes we go. As vacation divers every chance to dive is golden and I am blessed with no seasickness.

After each trip south with rough seas Eric says he is rethinking this approach. But if the dive trip that had "sporty seas" and a surface interval with a wave of unusual proptions and bad timing on Eric'c part, he was lifting his 120 tank up to switch over just as the wave hit knocking him forward to impact the tank valve face first, didn't dissuade him I'm not sure anything well. His face started swelling immediately but it didn't compare to the way it looked after the second dive! Next day found us at an Urgent Care then at an MRI unit. Yep facial fractures x 2 and no more diving (for him ) that trip.

 

[packrat12]

Hey Boulderjohn - I was on the dive with you. We all thought they were going to trip the line at the end of the dive. That operator normally has us all go up the line anyway and the DM trips it at the end. I talked with the DM and he stated that the last one up was supposed to trip it but did not. I know I normally like a downline with a drifting ascent on my DSMB. Your student looked quite capable and experienced. Good job with your instruction and her skills. I think it was you coming up the ladder that took a head hit on it. She was more concerned about you then getting her to the seat. FYI I was one of the Prism guys.

I was also supposed to be on the Miller Lite the next day but cancelled. Too rough for me to even try also. I heard of some that were out in the morning and got beat up really bad.

You also forgot to mention that we lost 1 engine and went to Boca Inlet to get back in. We got back to the docks much later then normal and had to pack up to leave in the dark.

For me though, it was a very nice dive. I came home rested and relaxed.

 

[scubadada]

The normal procedure for this dive operator is to attach a descent/ascent line and then disconnect it once everyone has started the ascent, and that was what we were expecting. By doing that, we all do our deco drifting comfortably next to the dangling ascent line. For some reason, they did not do that this time. (There was no briefing before the dive, so we were confused about a number of things.) As a consequence, we were all hanging onto the ascent line in a big cluster in heavy current, a very unpleasant experience. About half of the divers did what we should have done--left the line, shot bags, and drifted.

When we got to the surface, it was very rough. The boat was well off, checking on the drifters. The came back and picked people up as they surfaced, a very slow process. Hanging on the ladder to pull off the fins as the waves slammed against the boat was pure Hell.

Just to be clear...

As we prepared to jump in, I was quite sure we knew the procedures. Every diver on the boat had been with the boat many times before, and they always did the same thing. I was thus surprised when they did not disconnect the line, as was everyone else. The prevailing theory after the dive was that the team doing the longest run time (all our run times were established prior to the dive) was expected to untie the line, but they did not get the message somehow. (That team included someone who was normally a member of the crew.)

Hi @boulderjohn

I'm with @dumpsterDiver, also not a technical diver, but very familiar with wreck dives in the area, especially Boynton Beach. We follow the same ascent procedure, the last diver or team unhooks the down line prior to starting ascent. On these, much simpler, mostly recreational dives, the unhooking procedure is always explicitly discussed with responsibility assigned. In over 110 of these dives, the line has never not been unhooked. On two occasions, an overzealous fellow diver has unhooked before I completed my dive. In both instances, the guilty parties simply and incorrectly assumed I was not still down as I had exceeded their bottom time. Of course, this is not difficult to deal with by shooting and ascending on your SMB. Without the deco, the drift distances are considerably shorter.

It's very difficult for me to understand how this protocol would not be explicitly discussed and responsibility assigned prior to a more complicated technical dive. In many ways, it seems like the task would be easy, as the dive teams are separated and have dictated bottom times. The bottom times are not so predictable in recreational diving. The failure to discuss this issue would appear as a major breach in the expected behavior of technical divers.

We've all dived in rough conditions and, at times, when conditions have significantly deteriorated while we were down. One operator I use in Jupiter has Christmas tree ladders on both their boats. This does make it easier in rough seas, when calm, you still have the option of removing your fins. You did not mention this in your post, but when conditions are rough, the operators I use throw out a trailing line for divers to hold onto. This allows divers to stay together and also facilitates fin removal and securing them on your wrists. You can then attempt your final approach to the ladder at the most opportune time. Holding on to a wildly bucking boat ladder is a frightening thought to me.

I appreciate your post, as with many incidents, it allows us all to think about our diving practices and become safer divers.

Good diving, Craig

 

[packrat12]

Part of the problem on this dive may have been the current was strong enough with everyone on the line that those below could not trip it. That was the assumption of the DM when I talked with him. With this operator, I have mainly had the DM set and retrieve the line and no one drift deco'ing. Almost all of my diving with them has been at the technical level so that is normally standard fare. I think because of a couple of the divers wanted to drift deco, they asked that they trip the line before their ascent. Normally the DM trips it when we are just getting to our 20' stop when I have dove with them lately. The DM comes rocketing down and you know you are about to go for a ride!

 

[scubadada]

Part of the problem on this dive may have been the current was strong enough with everyone on the line that those below could not trip it. That was the assumption of the DM when I talked with him. With this operator, I have mainly had the DM set and retrieve the line and no one drift deco'ing. Almost all of my diving with them has been at the technical level so that is normally standard fare. I think because of a couple of the divers wanted to drift deco, they asked that they trip the line before their ascent. Normally the DM trips it when we are just getting to our 20' stop when I have dove with them lately. The DM comes rocketing down and you know you are about to go for a ride!

Thanks @packrat12

For our rec dives in Boynton Beach, one of the experienced customers generally sets the line as most operators do not have a DM in the water. I learned to do several wraps of the line around the rail with the final connection, generally with a carabiner, left slack, so that disconnection is quick and easy without tension on it.

 

[boulderjohn]

You also forgot to mention that we lost 1 engine and went to Boca Inlet to get back in.

I didn't forget to mention it--I just figured I had described enough without mentioning the blown engine. Fortunately, that did not happen until after the last diver was picked up, and our trip down the intracoastal was at normal speed for that waterway.

I was indeed the one who took a big head hit trying to get on the boat.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Why not rig it with a weak link that is cut with a knife and the hook and chain are sent up on a lift bag? So there is no fighting with a grappling hook and chain at depth and under tension?

I always just drift into a wreck like that and drift off with a reel and float,. Fighting the current seems so unecessary, but then again I am solo or maybe with one other diver.

 

[boulderjohn]

Thanks @packrat12

For our rec dives in Boynton Beach, one of the experienced customers generally sets the line as most operators do not have a DM in the water. I learned to do several wraps of the line around the rail with the final connection, generally with a carabiner, left slack, so that disconnection is quick and easy without tension on it.

On tech dives, as packrat 12 describes it, the normal procedure is for the DM to set the line first. Before the dive, the DM gets everyone's bottom time, run time, and expected time at key deco stops. That tells them when to go into the water to undo the line. As you are doing a stop (for me it is usually at about 40-50 feet), the DM goes by, giving a friendly wave. Soon the line swings to vertical and everything is very nice. We kept wondering why that was not happening.

My understanding of the reason it was not untied was that the last group did not understand they were supposed to do it, as that is not SOP. One of them is often a member of the crew.