Thinking about options to upgrade my divecomputer

[McHugh]

Hi guys,
I am diving a Suunto Zoop Novo in the moment and have had no issues with it (still wondering how people manage to get locked).
Never the less, I recently have been thinking of upgrading it as I like the idea of having a little wider display and AI.

So as I am diving a Suunto DC and like their interface, I sure stumbled across the Suunto EON Core.
On further research I also came across the Perdix (2) with Air integration as well as the Ratio iX3M 2.

When trying to find a comparison of those DCs I came across a few posts here on SB which more or less say the Shearwater is the one and only DC.
Never the less I hardly found any real foundation (appart from "you can lock the suunto" ... but if I have such a breach of procedure I definetely will sit out for arround 2 days to be sure).

So if I analyse my dive profile: baltic sea, Mediterranean Sea and lakes, Depths up to 40m recreational, than I am quite stubbered to spend 1.4k or 1.6k (including transmitter) for the Perdix, when I can get the Suunto for arround 700€ including a transmitter. On the other hand I am then thinking that I might go towards extended range somewhere in the future.

So I would be glad to get your input of where the Perdix surpasses the Suunto and whether the Ratio could be a good alternative.

 

[rongoodman]

The Suuntos have two issues that are often criticized here, their use of proprietary algorithms and their propensity to lock divers out for violations of said algorithms. (In all fairness, they're not the only recreational computers to do this.) The Shearwaters and Ratios avoid both problems with the use of standard Buhlmann GF and no lock out(or the ability to disable the lock out in the case of the Ratio). A while back I had a Shearwater thinking I had missed some required deco(user error on my part) and while it complained bitterly, it allowed me to dismiss the message and continue using it.

 

[d^2b]

When trying to find a comparison of those DCs I came across a few posts here on SB which more or less say the Shearwater is the one and only DC.
Never the less I hardly found any real foundation (appart from "you can lock the suunto" ... but if I have such a breach of procedure I definetely will sit out for arround 2 days to be sure).

I might have agreed with you, until my Suunto Zoop Novo locked me out without any violation (at 20ft, descending, 3rd dive of the day). To top it off, Huish, the Canadian distributor basically tried to blame me for the problem and sent the computer back to the dealer without even trying to fix it. I know other people have had better experience with Suunto and Huish, but the second time my computer locked up during a liveaboard trip, I replaced with a Shearwater Peregrine. Yes, it is a cliche around here, but at least some of us have concrete experience to base our prejudice on.

 

[Belzelbub]

When trying to find a comparison of those DCs I came across a few posts here on SB which more or less say the Shearwater is the one and only DC.
Never the less I hardly found any real foundation (appart from "you can lock the suunto" ... but if I have such a breach of procedure I definetely will sit out for arround 2 days to be sure).

Whether a computer will lock you out or not is a debated subject. I'm in the I don't want my computer to lock me out camp, but can understand other opinions on that. My biggest issue with the lock seems to be the severity of the lock and how it handles conservatism settings with regard to the lock.

If I set my computer extra conservative, and have a minor transgression from the computer's plan, does that warrant a lock? I could understand if that transgression violated the max values, but not the safety buffer.

So I would be glad to get your input of where the Perdix surpasses the Suunto and whether the Ratio could be a good alternative.

The Perdix surpasses the Suunto in just about every way. The algorithm used is open and well understood. Suuntos primarily come with RGBM models, though the Eon Steel does now offer Buhlmann. I can't recall if that's an extra charge or not. The Suuntos also require a proprietary transmitter while the Shearwater will work with transmitters from Aqualung, Oceanic, and a few others. Shearwater provides an easy to understand manual, and includes instructions on changing the batteries for the computer and transmitter. Suunto wants you to take your transmitter to an authorized service center to replace the battery. For reference, this past weekend, I changed the batteries in 3 PPS transmitters while sitting on my couch. Took me about 5 minutes total including fresh o-rings.

A bit more on the algorithm. It appears that the Suunto implementation of Buhlmann does allow custom GFs, so it seems at least that Suunto is responding to the Buhlmann computers on the market. Their default GF of 30/70 is quite conservative, but that's to be expected.

I don't believe the Suunto will display SurfGF which I've found to be very useful. Only computers I know to offer this though are the Shearwaters and the Garmin.

Another plus for Shearwater is the support after the sale. You can read through examples of Shearwater taking care of those using their product. In some cases, they've arranged for a loaner while the computer was being fixed. Tales of Suunto customer service are often not quite so well perceived.

While I'm not a fan of the display on the Ratio computers, I do think the Ratio line would be a good option. They do come with Buhlmann and have an upgradeable firmware. So you could start with the basic features and pay to unlock some other features later. The standard GFs seem a little odd to me, but they will work. The transmitter is proprietary, so will only work with Ratio computers.

 

[Marie13]

Shearwater. I hear nothing but complaints about Suunto.

I have two Perdix AI, plus a Petrel 3 on my newish rebreather.

I’d say Peregrine, but if you want AI, go Perdix 2.

 

[lexvil]

Lockout aside, I’ve seen it happen but not to me but bottom line is this is an electronic device used in an environment that is hostile to electronics.

the huge thing in favor of Shearwater is the response from them when there is a problem, I’ve gone through a few Teric’s over the battery issues and now have two that seem to have beaten the issue, contact them they have you send it to them or the repair station, you have it back in days. Most other brands (don’t know about Ratio, the new one looks like a good option) are locked into the outdated dealer centric mode, take it to the shop where it sits around until they get around to sending it in where it sits until someone can fix it (if they see the problem) then it sits until someone gets around to shipping it back to the dealer where it sits until the get around to calling you…

Sometimes a computer can go years without any issues, many suunto’s have … are you feeling lucky?

 

[JohnnyQuest]

My wife and I each have 2 Sunnto computers: a Cobra 3 and a Zoop Vyper. We’ve each logged more than 1,000 dives with Sunnto and haven’t had a failure. I love their conservative algorithms. The wireless transmitters of the Vypers have never lost connection during a dive. We’ve done more than 35 liveaboards where we’ve done 4-5 dives every day for 10-14 days and never felt that the conservative algorithms limited our BT (we almost always dive Nitrox). Some of our trips have had rough conditions where our equipment had been beat up, but they never broke. If I was starting from scratch, I’d buy Sunnto again.

I’ve never seen a “lockout.” I suspect you need to do something “very bad” to get locked out. I’ve entered deco occasionally, and we’ve hit crazy currents where we’ve violated the conservative ascent rate ( the only times we’ve done so) and were given a ceiling. But even then, we’ve had zero issues and never have been locked out.

I also change my batteries in all 4 computers (6 units if you include the transmitters) every couple of years and it couldn’t be easier. Also changing the O2 % for nitrox is easy peazy. Zero problems and zero complaints with Sunnto.

 

[1fspeed]

I've used both the Suunto Eon Core and now the Perdix 2. I sold the Suunto after trying to get warranty service for a wildly inaccurate digital compass. They provided return shipping via DHL, but the nearest drop point was 130 miles away. It took multiple, emails/chats and nearly 4 weeks for me to just get it shipped back to them.

A couple other issues that I could have lived with:
-The Suunto's tank POD battery is not user serviceable, the Shearwater's is.
-While the Eon Core's rechargeable battery charging is well done (magnetic attachment), the charging cord is proprietary and makes me a bit nervous if it gets lost or damaged on a trip. (bought a spare). The Shearwater runs on AA batteries (preferably lithium but still readily available)

On the positive side, I preferred the Eon Core's display and mechanical buttons to the Shearwater's.

After the poor service experience I decided to sell the Suunto.

 

[Landau]

I hear nothing but complaints about Suunto.

Assuming you see this post - Not anymore

Love my Eon Core. The user interface is well thought out and no need to resort to the manual to change settings as it is so easy to figure out.

400 dives on mine with no issues. Side by side on a dive (cold greenish water) this week I thought the display was easier to read than my buddies Perdix, but about the same as my other buddies Perigrine. You can customize the layout of the display to you liking.

On conservative algorithms: you can set the Eon from +2 (very conservative) to -2 (aggressive) where the default of 0 is about the same as the Zoop at its most aggressive setting. My buddy with the Perigrine ran out of NDL several minutes before I did. My Zoop was at the default of 0, I'm not sure what she had the Perigrine set to.

On lockout for missing required DECO stops: who plans to miss required stops?

One thing not great about the Eon is the Suunto app. If you have an iPhone, MacDive is as much better divelog app for about $10 and uploads from the Eon via bluetooth.

 

[arew+4]

Assuming you have no plans to go tech, there are plenty of viable options out there for less than 1k euros, Including transmitters or you could go hose integrated for bigger savings. Wrist mounted wireless integration has it's charms, but hose mounts are fine, that's what I'm using even when dragging a camera around it's not much of an issue. I only look at every 10 minutes or so other than descent and ascent.